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Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?

The_Don90The_Don90
edited August 2011 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
bw_kemp93 Big blind  £0.04 £0.04 £3.87
 Your hole cards
  • Q
  • J
   
The_Don90 Call  £0.04 £0.08 £4.02
Pulpo Fold     
devonfish5 Call  £0.04 £0.12 £3.92
admr199105 Fold     
bw_kemp93 Check     
Flop
  
  • 10
  • 2
  • K
   
bw_kemp93 Check     
The_Don90 Check     
devonfish5 Bet  £0.06 £0.18 £3.86
bw_kemp93 Fold     
The_Don90 Call  £0.06 £0.24 £3.96
Turn
  
  • 9
   
The_Don90 Bet  £0.24 £0.48 £3.72
devonfish5 Call  £0.24 £0.72 £3.62
River
  
  • 9
   
The_Don90 Bet  £0.54 £1.26 £3.18
devonfish5 Raise  £1.08 £2.34 £2.54
The_Don90 ?????
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Comments

  • bolly580bolly580
    edited August 2011
    he bets flops flop which can mean either he has top pair of flush draw. re raise on river could definately mean a missed draw.

    Im jamming all day long here at NL4, he probably got top pair gud kicker or as i say missed draw, ur terribly unlcuky if he got K9. Jam here and long term be printing money
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    Im settin him in on the river here defo ,  as said if he's binked a house then ul xx
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  • Sky_DaveSky_Dave
    edited August 2011
    Don,

    As I know you can take it, I'll give you what my gut instincts were at each step of the hand.

    Preflop - ARGH! If you want to play QJs UTG, why not come in for a raise?

    Flop - Hmm. Facing the check from the BB, I would bet this flop as it looks like one that is more likely to hit your hand than theirs. Mind you, I'd be a whole lot happier betting it if I were the PFR. Anyway, either route is fine (ch/call or betting), so whatevs.

    Turn - Nice. I'd perhaps bet more, but not by much.

    River - Bet size good and you should call the raise. What are you worried about realistically? Q9 is a possibility, as is T9. K9 seems a bit out there but might be possible. We crush Kx, Tx, busted flush draws, x9, gutterballs, all sorts.

    With the pot offering over 4.5:1 it's never ever a fold imo.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011

    Shippittttt.

    Overbet the turn. 
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    Don, As I know you can take it, I'll give you what my gut instincts were at each step of the hand. Preflop - ARGH! If you want to play QJs UTG, why not come in for a raise? Flop - Hmm. Facing the check from the BB, I would bet this flop as it looks like one that is more likely to hit your hand than theirs. Mind you, I'd be a whole lot happier betting it if I were the PFR. Anyway, either route is fine (ch/call or betting), so whatevs. Turn - Nice. I'd perhaps bet more, but not by much. River - Bet size good and you should call the raise. What are you worried about realistically? Q9 is a possibility, as is T9. K9 seems a bit out there but might be possible. We crush Kx, Tx, busted flush draws, x9, gutterballs, all sorts. With the pot offering over 4.5:1 it's never ever a fold imo.
    Posted by Sky_Dave
    Dw dave im never folding i was between shoving the lot in and flatting. And wasnt sure i made the right desision hense my post here.

    Ekkk i didnt realise i was UTG, sigh i should have folded pre.
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  • Sky_DaveSky_Dave
    edited August 2011
    If that's the case then I'd call if early in the session to get a better line on the way he's playing. If it's deeper in and you have more background (or just feel you have a line on him anyway), you can raise if you think he's loose enough to do it with worse, etc.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited August 2011
    flat - he not calling a shove with a 9
    only a loose maniac would call a shove here

    i would think your beat - 109
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    I open fold pre.

    Flop is good, bet out is ok too.

    Turn bet more at least 35p.

    River when minraised scream down the room you're currenlty in with joy then SHOVE and take a nice pot. Flat calling here imo is terribad.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    I open fold pre. Flop is good, bet out is ok too. Turn bet more at least 35p. River when minraised scream down the room you're currenlty in with joy then SHOVE and take a nice pot. Flat calling here imo is terribad.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    This
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  • rancidrancid
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    River when minraised scream down the room you're currenlty in with joy then SHOVE and take a nice pot. Flat calling here imo is terribad.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Why is calling river terribad :s
    you really think someone is calling your shove with trips :)(

    Think shoving here against certain oppo here at NL4 is territerribad :)
    Surely your turning your hand into a bluff, hardly for value as only a hand thats beating you will call

    Ok ok maybe a station will call with a nine but devonfish is not calling a shove :S

    Rarther shove turn tbh
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : Why is calling river terribad :s you really think someone is calling your shove with trips :)( Think shoving here against certain oppo here at NL4 is territerribad :) Surely your turning your hand into a bluff, hardly for value as only a hand thats beating you will call Ok ok maybe a station will call with a nine but devonfish is not calling a shove :S Rarther shove turn tbh
    Posted by rancid
    What hands do we think our opponent has that involves having just plain trip 9's.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : Why is calling river terribad :syou really think someone is calling your shove with trips :)( Think shoving here against certain oppo here at NL4 is territerribad :) Surely your turning your hand into a bluff, hardly for value as only a hand thats beating you will call Ok ok maybe a station will call with a nine but devonfish is not calling a shove :S Rarther shove turn tbh
    Posted by rancid
    MANY will snap with a 9.

    I recognise the name I think he was a REG but not my kind of level of nittiness lol

    EDIT : NO REG would EVER minraise river if they had the hand.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : MANY will snap with a 9. I recognise the name I think he was a REG but not my kind of level of nittiness lol EDIT : NO REG would EVER minraise river if they had the hand.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    the only hand i can think of that i beat that would call would be A9 of spades?
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    Q9/J9/89/79/69 spades maybe worse 9's

    I also reckon K10 calls.

    Honestly I see this so often it's like 'Look at me i hit runner 9's so I'm gonna get me some value by minraising dat dere river'

    Would a REG limp behind with K10/109. Can only see 22 that beats you here.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited August 2011
    don post result :) ;lets see what he had -
    He could have anything it being a limped pot pre, 2's,k9s and 109 look reasonable holdings that have you beat.
    Lots of combination 9's that you beat.

    he may but like hardly ever have a busted FD.


    Dudeskin,  so what hand would a reg min raise with, you think he is bluffing with - FD :S
    Raising with a nine/str, is he b/f this spot






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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    don post result :) ;lets see what he had - He could have anything it being a limped pot pre, 2's,k9s and 109 look reasonable holdings that have you beat. Lots of combination 9's that you beat. he may but like hardly ever have a busted FD. Dudeskin,  so what hand would a reg min raise with, you think he is bluffing with - FD :S Raising with a nine/str, is he b/f this spot
    Posted by rancid
     
    ONLY hand I would even think about limping along behind with would be 22 but I would raise instead so he canny be a reg lol

    Also when I say a REG would never minraise river 'with the hand' I mean they would instead raise bigger for value obvz as minraise is so bad it's scary.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? :   ONLY hand I would even think about limping along behind with would be 22 but I would raise instead so he canny be a reg lol Also when I say a REG would never minraise river 'with the hand' I mean they would instead raise bigger for value obvz as minraise is so bad it's scary.
    Posted by Dudeskin8

    All regs do not play the same, i put this guy on a wider range pre.
    I would even go far to say that he would limp KK.

    But anyway... post the result DON - put us out of our misery
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : All regs do not play the same, i put this guy on a wider range pre. I would even go far to say that he would limp KK. But anyway... post the result DON - put us out of our misery
    Posted by rancid
    Yh he's not a REG lolz
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  • rancidrancid
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : Yh he's not a REG lolz
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Well my notes indicate it's very plausable he value bets small and not over bet/shove with nutz, and will sometimes limp or flat with big pr when he should be raising so,,,

     just wanna see what he had lol



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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : Well my notes indicate it's very plausable he value bets small and not over bet/shove with nutz, and will sometimes limp or flat with big pr when he should be raising so,,,  just wanna see what he had lol
    Posted by rancid
    Yh not loving all these traits lol

    But agree show the hand Donster !
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  • super_flysuper_fly
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : MANY will snap with a 9. I recognise the name I think he was a REG but not my kind of level of nittiness lol EDIT : NO REG would EVER minraise river if they had the hand.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Back when i used to play this level, i have never seen that player raise or get it in without a monster. But even that in mind im making call
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited August 2011
    as dave said before was early in my session so that effected my desision a little.
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    bw_kemp93 Big blind  £0.04 £0.04 £3.87
     Your hole cards
    • Q
    • J
    		   
    The_Don90 Call  £0.04 £0.08 £4.02
    Pulpo Fold     
    devonfish5 Call  £0.04 £0.12 £3.92
    admr199105 Fold     
    bw_kemp93 Check     
    Flop
      
    • 10
    • 2
    • K
    		   
    bw_kemp93 Check     
    The_Don90 Check     
    devonfish5 Bet  £0.06 £0.18 £3.86
    bw_kemp93 Fold     
    The_Don90 Call  £0.06 £0.24 £3.96
    Turn
      
    • 9
    		   
    The_Don90 Bet  £0.24 £0.48 £3.72
    devonfish5 Call  £0.24 £0.72 £3.62
    River
      
    • 9
    		   
    The_Don90 Bet  £0.54 £1.26 £3.18
    devonfish5 Raise  £1.08 £2.34 £2.54
    The_Don90 Call  £0.54 £2.88 £2.64
    devonfish5 Show
    • 9
    • A
    		   
    The_Don90 Show
    • Q
    • J
    		   
    The_Don90 Win Straight to the King £2.66  £5.30
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    You basically lost £2.54 here, nevamind though just make sure a note had been added. ;)
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  • rancidrancid
    edited August 2011
    wow he raising for value there, big question though is he b/f
    Don you should of shoved - now we will never know if he good enough to b/f that spot :)
    I thought he would be good enough to b/f there but now i just don't know - lol

    nice call dudeskin





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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    Ffs don i said set him in mate ;))

    Tbh i think ure showin toooooo much respect at this level and ure losin alot of value xxx
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    wow he raising for value there, big question though is he b/f Don you should of shoved - now we will never know if he good enough to b/f that spot :) I thought he would be good enough to b/f there but now i just don't know - lol nice call dudeskin
    Posted by rancid
    He can't minraise there then fold, at least he shouldn't lol, no I'm pretty sure like somewhere around 100% that he will snap a shove off.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    Ffs don i said set him in mate ;)) Tbh i think ure showin toooooo much respect at this level and ure losin alot of value xxx
    Posted by debdobs_67
    There was 2 reasons why i flatted

    One i was indecive and had very little time bank left (into slowroll terriroty)

    Two the reason dave said before. Early in session and was wanting a range check,
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : There was 2 reasons why i flatted One i was indecive and had very little time bank left (into slowroll terriroty) Two the reason dave said before. Early in session and was wanting a range check,
    Posted by The_Don90
    Fair enough mate , BUT i still think ure playin at a much higher thinkin level than the rest of the 2/4's are IF ya get me drift ?? xxx
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : Fair enough mate , BUT i still think ure playin at a much higher thinkin level than the rest of the 2/4's are IF ya get me drift ?? xxx
    Posted by debdobs_67
    baring in mind the level of tournys i play are usually of decent standard. Im still adapting. Getting there slowly.
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat?:
    In Response to Re: Nut straight at board pairs facing re-raise. Jam or flat? : baring in mind the level of tournys i play are usually of decent standard. Im still adapting. Getting there slowly.
    Posted by The_Don90
    AND i hope ya get there as do many on this forum , we is all with ya m8y xxx
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