what is this guy thinking?

sillymunch

Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance

RubixCube Small blind 150.00 150.00 1077.50

sillymunch Big blind 300.00 450.00 1432.50

  Your hole cards

A

J

     

lexiboylex Fold

PokerPicks Fold

RubixCube All-in 1077.50 1527.50 0.00

sillymunch Call 927.50 2455.00 505.00

RubixCube Show

7

4

sillymunch Show

A

J

Lambert180

Please read the sticky thread in the clinic about how to post hands properly...

Answer: He's stealing blinds...or at least attempting it. Can't really say because you haven't told us the positions but in certain positions if it's been folded round to him, with the blinds and his stack size, you could argue a shove with any 2.

sillymunch

In Response to Re: what is this guy thinking?:

Please read the sticky thread in the clinic about how to post hands properly... Answer: He's stealing blinds...or at least attempting it. Can't really say because you haven't told us the positions but in certain positions if it's been folded round to him, with the blinds and his stack size, you could argue a shove with any 2.
Posted by Lambert180

It does say im in the big blind lol, and yes, but stealing blinds with nothing is stupid, even if it meant i got knocked out of the tourney when he flops 2 pair

jugglegeek

You are in the BB with 3 big blinds (blinds are 150/300 you have around 900). He is in the small blind with 3.5 big blinds.

The action is folded around to him. He can't fold since the pot already represents about 40% of his stack. He can't call for 15% of his stack and then fold if you shove (which you should do with any two cards since you have so few chips.

His only option with any two cards in this situation is to shove and pray. If you fold then he increase his stack by 50% without seeing a card and if you call he is likely to have live cards against two probable over cards. Against two overcards he is 35% to win the hand anyway.

Lesson here is don't let yourself get down to 3 big blinds. When you have 12-20 big blinds (3600 - 6000 chips in this example) you shouldn't be limping or flat-calling a pre flop raise. You should be looking for spots when you have good cards and are facing a raise pre-flop. You 3-bet all in while you have fold equity. When you have fewer than 12 big blinds you should be open shoving (going all in pre flop when everyone else in the hand so far has folded) with a fairly wide range (22+, A9o+ A2s+ and any suited connectors) while you still have fold equity. People are only going to call with premium hands generally and you still have reasonable chances if you get it in pre-flop.

Too often in these fast structured sit-and-goes I see players limp-folding hoping to see a cheap flop with mediocre hands like K9 or QT when they have 12 bigs left. Get it all in pre and steal the blinds without seeing any cards. You increase you stack by around 10% just for having some balls

sillymunch

that wasnt the problem with me, the reason i was down to those chips is because i lost to someone who flopped a full house lol, and every single card i picked up after that was rags, i finally pick up a hand and he pushes me all in, he flops a two pair, its rediculous, he had been going in none stop for so many occasions, i had rags, and the 2 big stackers were letting him walk all over them.

Dudeskin8

If you get short stacked below 10 bb's you should start shoving wider (you don't need a hand) as people often need a decent hand to call you so most the time you can knick blinds and if they call you could be 40-60 which ain't bad.

sillymunch

I understand all that principles, if i remember correctly the harrington on holdem book talks about this exact thing, but it says that you still need to have some sort of hand to do it in case you get called, the funny thing was it didnt even matter what i started with cus if i had AA KK QQ AK the 4 main cards i would of still lost to his 8 6o also since the big stackers who have like 4000+ chips if they have any sort of hand they should be calling knowing he will be going all in with rags???

delaney09

In Response to Re: what is this guy thinking?:

I understand all that principles, if i remember correctly the harrington on holdem book talks about this exact thing, but it says that you still need to have some sort of hand to do it in case you get called, the funny thing was it didnt even matter what i started with cus if i had AA KK QQ AK the 4 main cards i would of still lost to his 8 6o also since the big stackers who have like 4000+ chips if they have any sort of hand they should be calling knowing he will be going all in with rags???
Posted by sillymunch

that book is about as old as poker itself the basic concepts in the book probably still match up but majority is probably wayyyy outdated

BorinLoner

I don't agree with Harrington being outdated. It's pretty much a solid, winning style of poker, though a little unfashionable these days.

The problem is that when you get down to less than about 7 Big Blinds, the value of your hand becomes almost meaningless. You need to get your chips all-in whenever you have the opportunity to be first into the pot. This is because you still have enough to make other short'ish stacks fold with 7 BB. You can't afford to wait even for suited connecters. 7,2 or 3,2 are good enough just based on the fact that if you get called, you'll probably have live cards. 7,2 against AK or pairs between 22 and 66 is is still 30% to 35% to win.

Your opponent in the small blind has no choice other than to shove, and he'd be pretty happy to see you have AJ. That sounds strange, but as long as you're not holding an overpair he still has a decent chance. You were just unlucky to lose this hand, but you lost this tournament in earlier hands. If you were to listen to Dan Harrington, you let yourself get into "the Dead Zone" by waiting for a good hand for so long.

Keep at it, but in future make your move before you get so low. Hope you have better luck in future.

sillymunch

In Response to Re: what is this guy thinking?:

I don't agree with Harrington being outdated. It's pretty much a solid, winning style of poker, though a little unfashionable these days. The problem is that when you get down to less than about 7 Big Blinds, the value of your hand becomes almost meaningless. You need to get your chips all-in whenever you have the opportunity to be first into the pot. This is because you still have enough to make other short'ish stacks fold with 7 BB. You can't afford to wait even for suited connecters. 7,2 or 3,2 are good enough just based on the fact that if you get called, you'll probably have live cards. 7,2 against AK or pairs between 22 and 66 is is still 30% to 35% to win. Your opponent in the small blind has no choice other than to shove, and he'd be pretty happy to see you have AJ. That sounds strange, but as long as you're not holding an overpair he still has a decent chance. You were just unlucky to lose this hand, but you lost this tournament in earlier hands. If you were to listen to Dan Harrington, you let yourself get into "the Dead Zone" by waiting for a good hand for so long. Keep at it, but in future make your move before you get so low. Hope you have better luck in future.
Posted by BorinLoner

Totally incorrect, i lost this tournament by getting involved with a hand 4 turns before said hand, which then put me in the dead zone, i went in with AQ suited, and it came up 6 6 4 or something along those lines, he checks, i check, next card comes a Q and he pushes all in, i assumed he had a queen and quite happily called, only to find out he had flopped a full house with a pair of 4's, this then put me in 3rd out of 4th place, and the villain who previously kept going all in had very low stack size, and they two huge stackers just sat and watched as he stole every hand before me, finally i got into the pot first and i shoved which the guy folded, then he shoved taking him just before me, and then he trys to shove me off the pot, which i decided to call - had no choice really

the only thing that annoys me is the two large stackers who ok they dont need to get involved, but with the shover on the wrong side of me i cant do much, had the high stackers paid attention they could of innitiated a forced shove on many occasions stopping the short stackers from shoving without a hand, it felt to me as if i was targeted by them even though i wasnt the short stack at the time they knew i couldnt do anything about his shoves, but they could

BorinLoner

I see. Well, if you were knocked down to a short stack in a previous big hand, then it may just be unlucky.I can't really say what the big stacked players were doing, but I doubt they were explicitly ganging up on you. That's just how the dynamic of the table develops sometimes. Lots of things can cause it, but without information on the type of tournament, proximity to the bubble and number of players at the table, etc, it's difficult to develop a theory.

There's nothing wrong with the way either player played this hand. It's pretty much automatic for both of you. If you'd like to post a more comprehensive overview of the big clash with the AQ v 44 that might be more interesting. Without stack sizes, position, bet sizes, etc. it's impossible to know if you could have done anything differently. That hand sounds like the critical hand for you, so that's the one you need to examine. It might well be that you did nothing wrong and were inevitably going to lose because of the way the cards were dealt. You can't win them all.

Batkin88

why assume he has a queen? The hand posted is standard play in current poker and he is better doing it with them hands as they hold such good value to better hands e.g KQ KJ KT AK AQ AJ AT