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tournament play to cash players?
Hi guys,
Again im looking for a little help, im most at comfortable as a tournament player (or games where blinds go up) as this is how i learnt poker and is my sort of "normality". However i was looking at doing some cash games as ive noticed alot of people saying cash games are better. However the blinds dont go up, and i know this affects style. Can anyone help me on the basis guidelines on cash playing please.
Many Thanks,
Don
Again im looking for a little help, im most at comfortable as a tournament player (or games where blinds go up) as this is how i learnt poker and is my sort of "normality". However i was looking at doing some cash games as ive noticed alot of people saying cash games are better. However the blinds dont go up, and i know this affects style. Can anyone help me on the basis guidelines on cash playing please.
Many Thanks,
Don
Comments
One consequence of the blinds not going up is that there is no pressure to play hands since you will not get blinded away anywhere near as quickly as will happen on the main, quick structured, tournaments on Sky.
Judging by the comments you made as a guest on the Open on Saturday (well done, by the way) this will suit your game since you like to be patient and wait for big hands.
Also, generally, most of the people at the table will have large stacks relative to the blinds and this means that there is much more flop, turn and river play than there is in most tournaments (certainly in the later stages).
You will also find that people tend to play a lot more "speculative" drawing hands in cash games since there are chances to make big hands and get paid a lot.
Also, since you can always top-up or reload your stack, the consequences of losing your whole stack are not as dramatic, i.e. in a freeze-out tournament (which all SkyPoker tournaments currently are) if you lose your stack your game is over - in a cash game you can just "pull up" another buy-in if you wish to do so.
As in all forms of poker you will find all types of players but you may be surprised how loose-aggressive many cash players play. People tend to bet draws very aggressively and make decisions based purely on the odds - i.e. there are no concerns over preserving your tournament life or trying to ladder up and make the money.
You will often be sat at the table with the same people for long periods unlike tournaments where tables split-up and re-form as people get knocked out. This gives you an opportunity to get to study the style of your opponents over a long period of time and making notes on them is very useful. Before starting playing, it is well worth just watching some tables to see how people are playing.
If you are interested in playing cash then there are plenty of 2p/4p tables available all day on SkyPoker. A 10-seater table might suit your style better initially. Be aware, however, that people play that level of cash for all sorts of reasons - some are just happy for a bit of fun and a wild gamble so you need to be aware that you may need to risk your entire stack on a fairly regular basis if you are to be successful and not get bet off pots (depending on the nature of the table). This is why many people recommend that you should not play a cash table where you risk more than 5% of your bankroll at any one time.
I hope that this helps.
The differences between cash and tournies are vast. Way way too much to go cover in a post here. My advice would be to lurk on 2p2 and maybe join a video training site.
+1
This book is really good if your playing nl25+ and best of all its free http://s3.amazonaws.com/ryanfee/fees6max.pdf
In my opinion you can beat nl10 and under by just playing 16% of hands, playing position (only premium hands UTG) and value betting three streets aggressively when you hit better than tpgk as most players are calling stations.
GL
See alot more flops which i find is suiting me perfect, and like MereNovice said people bet on draws etc (which i am often pushed off) and as a result ill take a pot unless they hit. Ive also noticed alot of people going all in with Queen and Jack high.
The key differences are, in my opinion:
1. in tournaments the chips change value
2. tournaments have an end.
these differences are enough that cash and tournaments are just completely different games, like Rugby League and Rugby Union.
The implications of 1 are vast and no-one can be a good tournament player without grasping the implications (they go a lot further than rising blinds). In a cash game, a 50p chip is and always will be worth 50 pence, not so in a tournament.
For example, 100 players each have 1,000 chips; total prize pool is £100,000 then each of the chips is worth £1 at the start of the tournament, obviously.
At the end, the winner has 100,000 chips but only gets £25,000 in prize money, so each of HIS chips are worth just 25p while at the start each was worth £1! YOUR chips have gone from being worth £1 to being worth nothing.
So where has all the value gone?
The implications of 2 are huge as well. Consider cash games as an infinite game lasting a lifetime. In this scenario, every time you have a 51/49 edge you should take it as over a lifetime this will earn you big bucks (Las Vegas was built on such edges!) Not so in tournaments - you are often correct to give up 60/40 edges in tournaments then later on take the 40% worst of it! Clearly you would never do this in a cash game.
One thing I have noticed is that when a tournament player plays a cash game, he wins initially (probably because of the looser play) but will lose in the medium and long term. But cash players who play tournaments never seem to get anywhere - they tend to get blown away.
Conversely, if 10% see the flop and the average pot is nearly the blinds, then that table is really tight and you should play loose to pick up those blinds but back off at the first sign of resistance.
If you can pick your seat, put the wild aggressive players on your right and the tight ones on your left.
Theory aside, pick the game you're comfortable with. Don't try to be loose if that's not your style, don't try to play tight if you're prone to getting bored.
This is exactly the way i must admit i was playing last night. Finnished my night on £7.69 after starting with what i said before.
Although what i do is once i sence the tilt ill stand after my next hand (useage of the stand feature) leave the table and let someone else play while i have my cuppa watch some tv, maybe browse the web, get bored and go back onto a table.
I must say i would advise this to any player who isnt all that aggressive. Worked for me, and usually when you go back if like me youll have notes on a number of the players anyway.
To give you an examplefrom my own experience. I sat down on the 2p/4p table with £1.60 and did not a lot for the first few rotations whilst watching the other players. I noticed that one guy was playing every pot and betting out on every flop if it was unopened. So i played really tight and when i did hit big i just gave him some rope and let him hang himself. I had got up to £5 , mainly from him, when he left the table. I left as well and found him sat at another table which i then joined. When i left this table i was up to £8.60. Ok this is not big money , but being a cash game allowed me to do this. Tournys do not offer you the luxury of following the donators.
I agree that one of the most important things in cash is to have good reads on the players you sit down with.
The main problem is the donators usually wont play cash for very long as its easier for them to get lucky in a tourny than grinding cash games.
Thats probably the main reason i dont play cash on sky poker as i like to have stats on every player i sit with so i can exploit everyone of their weekneses.
For example i have over 70,000 players in my holdem manager database, for the regular players i have aound 15000 hands on them, so if i wanted to i can look back through every hand they have played and analyse all their mistakes.
Also just because they are regs doesnt mean they are good players. (loads of them are down at least 2000 pounds,they just loose slower than the loose fish)
I think, while BRM is still huge regardless (and should be around 50 FBI's for the level you're playing) you could probably get away with 20BI's on this site as the 6 max games are very soft compared to FT, stars etc