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Is it the software
I have not played poker on line for long . But early on I noticed something strange happening when players go allin.
I have noticed it on full tilt and poker stars and here infact everytime I play on line it happens.
If a player goes allin and he is called by 1 or more players if he has the weakest hand and there are cards to come (flop,turn,river) he will improve and win.Then I say the weakest hand I don,t mean a poor hand eg
player A goes allin, player B calls and player C calls
A has QQ
B has KK
C has A8s
The Ks are the fav but because the weakest hand pushed allin that hand will win and in this case the Q came on the river and the weakest hand won the pot.
IS this the way the software works to make it more exciting
I have noticed it on full tilt and poker stars and here infact everytime I play on line it happens.
If a player goes allin and he is called by 1 or more players if he has the weakest hand and there are cards to come (flop,turn,river) he will improve and win.Then I say the weakest hand I don,t mean a poor hand eg
player A goes allin, player B calls and player C calls
A has QQ
B has KK
C has A8s
The Ks are the fav but because the weakest hand pushed allin that hand will win and in this case the Q came on the river and the weakest hand won the pot.
IS this the way the software works to make it more exciting
Comments
No - it's not the way the software works, it's the way our minds work.
We expect K-K to beat Q-Q & A-8, & it usually does. So it does not register in our mind.
When the A-8 wins, because it is unexpected, it does register in our mind.
Note also that you say the "the Q came on the River & the weakest hand won". In fact the weakest hand was not Q-Q, but A-8, so the weakest hand never won.
Perversely, in Maths terms, Q-Q had the least chance of winning out of all three hands. Pre-Flop, The K-K was 58%, the Q-Q was 17.5%, & the A-8 25%.
Finally, A-8, the weakest hand of the 3, was 25% pre-flop to win that. So, it will win 1 time in 4. Compare that with hitting a number on Roulette, which is, I think, 36/1.
No hand in Poker is ever without a realistic chance. Even A-A v 2-7 is only 87.5% v 12.5%. So that's about 7/1. Nobody raises an eyebrow when a 7/1 shot wins a horse-race, but when 2-7 beats A-A people are surprised.
PS - I'm not sure why this Thread is in "Sky Poker Tour"!
I'm afraid it will happen to you from time to time, whether you play on Sky Poker or any other site, Live or Online. But with respect, it does not happen to you, or anyone else, "all the time".
If you have any reliable evidence to the contrary, Post it here please, & I'd be pleased to re-assess my view if appropriate.
then record how many time the "best" hand wins.
i went through a stage where i was sure someone had hacked into my pc and could see my cards(ive never subscribed to the "fixed site" theories)
but everytime i went in ahead i lost,my aces always lost,this went on for weeks so i kept a chart over two months and of course the wins/losses evened themselves out over a period of time.so just because your best hand loses(even for as long as two weeks) if you play the right game you will claw it back in the end,as well as hitting those one outers yourself occasionally
good luck..dave
I speak to a lot of poker players who do not play on line because they think it is fixed and for the last 6 months on and off I have been playing and watching online trying to find out why online has such a bad rep.
I have watched 100s of players play hands on 3 diff site sky, fulltilt, pokerstars and what I have found happens on all these sites .
What I have been looking at is all in,s . what I have found is that if you go allin you will get called 48% of the time if you are ahead you will win the hand 56% of the time . However if you are behind you will win 90% of the time .
Please don,t take my word for it pick a table on any site and just watch count the number of time,s a player goes allin and come from behind to win .
Tonight I played in a 90 sitter sit n go on fulltilt I lasted 65 hands before I was put out when I called an allin with pkt As against J 5 clubs I flopped a set but anOther club hit the table and so did the turn and river giving J5 a flush .I knew I shouldn't have called but I was running low on chips so had to make a move(as I said when you go allin and you are behind you will win 90% of the time my As where ahead so I only had a 10% chance of winning) .
But apart from that hand I counted 7 hands where player went allin and found himself behind but improved to win only 2 other times did it not happen and the weaker hand lost
It happens I don,t think it is happening to favor any player or to make sky more money I just think it is a computer programme , and as you know computer programme,s are not ramdon thay just repeat
I can,t believe on one else has notice this . perhaps a lot of players have and that is why we get so many allin online with garbbage cards. I don,t think that that is the case . but unless this loop is sorted you are going to lose a lot more players who will be discouraged by what they call bad beats
I,m on your side I just won,t to make it better
Thse maths make no sense to me.
If you go all in you will be called 48% of the time, If you are ahead you will win 56% of the time. If you are behind you will win 90% of the time.
Now, usually, when 2 hands are in a pot all in, one will be in front, one will be behind. Obviously you will have the odd occasion where 2 players have both gone all in with the same hand.
This grand total of winning hands now equals 146%. That a huge number of split pots you must have seen.
If your theory really holds water, why not have a spell where you always go all in with hands like 2 3 off, you will make a mint. Just invest 20 quid or so on it, that way you can come back and show us the results and your nice impressive bankroll. Or What I would do is keep it secret, and take as many players for their roll as possible. If I could do that, I would be here full time and be working from home as an internet professional.
Perhaps this is why Tikay hasn't replied, your logic has huge flaws.
I have found simply by being ahead, long term you will have more winning hands than losing.
Even Ace King against two live cards is only roughly 60/40, not huge odds for winning is it? Maybe too many people have expectations that because AK is so strong it must win every time so when it loses, then we get the usual 'hey thats not fair, fixed software, etc etc etc'
The maths are correct , my posts are brief, to go into detail would take a little longer , but the maths do add up
as I said it depends on who goes allin 1st and it depends on when you go allin . if you go allin at the beginning of a tourney you will get called 48% of the time if you are ahead and get called with cards to come you will win 56% of the time
If you are behind you will win 90%
The odds are the opposite if you call an allin. If you call an allin and you are ahead you will win 10% of the time . If you are behind and call an allin you will win 44% of the time .
Take my eg from last night on full tilt I have AA my opponent has Jc 7c pre flop the % are 82.29% in favor of the As post flop the % increase in my favor post flop to 92.63% .When my opponent goes allin I should immediately call . But I hesitate because I know from my data that I only have a 10% chance of winning but it is hard to lay down a set when there is nothing on the board . so I call and i,m out when my opponent hits runner runner flush.
I could sit here all day and give you examples of hands that were way ahead and got beat by runner runner or by the only out coming on the river . the common denominator to all these bad baets is that the aggressor was the winner.
As to trying it myself .I have the worst bad beat I inflicted on some one was when I had 2h 2c the flop was 3c 4c 5 c .1 player raised indicating he had made his flush which he had . I pushed allin knowingI was behind and knowing I needed the 6c to win it came on the turn.
Can you make money using this system ? No you can,t you would need to know that when you go allin you are behind and you need to have some kind of an out. Going allin with 7 2 all the time won,t work although I have seen 7 3 suited beat 2 pair heads up.
I don,t think a lot of these turn arounds are intentional I think that when some one goes all in they genuallly think they are ahaed or they are trying to bluff you off the pot and when thay win the hand thay put it down to just being lucky.
ALSO ALLIN,S ARE DAGEROUS EVAN WITH A 90% CHANCE OF WINNING YOU ONLY NEED TO LOSE ONCE TO BE KNOCKED OUT.
As I said earlier I am not a poker player but do do have an interest in the game and from what I hear the majority of our players don,t play on line because thay do think it,s fixed . poker is growing right now but it will reach it,s peak and numbers will start to fall and if online poker has a software problem poker site number will decline evsn more thsn live poker now is the time to sort it.
As I keep saying I,m not here to cause problem or prove that online poker is corrupt I,m just trying to point out something that happens which if fixed will benefit all of us (apart from the bad beaters)
Until the yanks loosen the rules over there, it will never be as big as 2005.
Raintown,
I did get your IM, but I get about 30 a day on this site alone (I also help run another Poker Forum where I get just as many, too), so I do get a bit behind with the replies, but I do reply to them all, & I will reply to yours, as soon as I can. Sorry for the delay.
But I have to say, I'm not sure where the debate can take us. You are of the view, (& it's entirely within your rights to hold any view) that the Software on all Poker Sites, including 'Stars & Tilt, is not correct, that the software is somehow wrong.
I'm afraid that does not add up. On 'Stars, they have as many as 200,000 Players seated Online at times, & I've held an Account on 'Stars for nearly 10 years now. Are you seriously suggesting that all these Sites have the same software bug?
Which, by the way, is entirely different from "a lot of Live players" believing Online Poker is not straight. Those guys don't play Online because they think it's not strsaight - it's hardly a representative sample, with due respect.
FWIW, I've played in numerous Live Games, in Regulated & Licensed Casinos, where the game, or the Dealers, are bent.
If you want a guarantee of a straight game of poker, where the rules are consistently applied, nothing beats Online. Respectable Online Rooms have no motive to do anything else.
Can you even begin to imagine how much money 'Stars make, every day, every week, 24/7? Given that, why would they not have their software spot on? And why don't the hundreds of thousands - millions? - of Players who hold Accounts there think it's not right?
Down the history of Online Poker, (which I've played since Day One, back in the 90's). there have been a handful - just a handful - of dodgy Online Sites. They have run away with peoples money, or, in one case, there was "Super-Account" where insiders could see other players cards. There has not been a single instance, however, of the Software being "wrong".
The whole Online world, like it or hate it, cannot be wrong!
ps perhaps you should find out what that phrase actually mean first before you use it out of context again.
Just out of interest, what is a Sky Poker carrier, and how can I get one?
I don't suppose they fly long haul do they?
It's a multi-purpose all-weather all-resistant bag that you can carry your chips in.
They come in S, L, XL, XXL and XXXL.
I have the S.
I'd like to correct my earlier Post.
I said.....
There has not been a single instance, however, of the Software being "wrong".
I should have added "to my personal knowledge". To be fair, I've been immersed in the poker world, Online & Live, for over a decade, but it's possible such an instance may have happened.
I would also go back to the fact that you believe that the 'Stars software (amongst others) is "not right".
Did you know that 'Stars have run 170 MILLION Tournaments? And dealt 2 BILLION hands? (Verifiable facts).
It's very hard to imagine that in all those Tourneys, & hands, nobody, not one person, has spotted the flaw in their software, do you not agree?
I'm really perplexed by your views, all things considered. I'm trying to see your point, but the overwhelming body of logic makes it difficult.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me Novice, there I was going to try to book my hold via Sky Poker!
And excellent posts Tikay, the only thing I would personally disagree with is your evaluation of a8 v kk v qq.
For me, the weakest hand will always be the one statistically when the money goes in so it would be the queens for me.
Above post should read "my hols" not my "hold"!
As to calling me a fish what type am I screaming fish, o tuna, b bass or maybe i, m not a fish Icould be a maniac or a rock that would make you a fox then. I know you have no idea what i,m talking about so I,ll give you a few hours to google it before I get your reply . It,s a big bad world out there son and there are a lot of sharks waiting to eat you up don,t swim to far from the shore.
I am the first to criticise players who make clueless plays, but have never once criticised a site for being rigged. It's like people who criticise the lottery for being rigged, if the numbers come out 1,2,3,4,5 & 6 (just as likely as 6 numbers being evenly spaced) - what interest would stars, sky or camelot have in "rigging" anything? As long as someone wins and people are playing they're happy.
If the miracle back door quads hit on the river, do sky make a million? No, I think not!
Some people! ...
There's nowt as strange as folk.
loonytoons are you serious? How can i become a regular? Always thought there was someone against me when i got all my chips in preflop with 72 SUITED against 4 players, hit a 2 on the flop but still lost... always get sucked out on at sky poker.