very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree!

pod1

villian to be far was prob the best player at the table, although most of his stack came from a very lucky hand akvaa and he hit runner runner kings.he was stealing a lot of blinds and i def thought i was ahead pre, hence the rr, i think flop was standard, started to worry about over pair on turn and then the river came, i know im going to get slated here i think, but what should i have done?Michael_83Small blind £0.15£0.15£13.80VINEY73Sitout    RyddtrBig blind £0.30£0.45£23.76 Your hole cardsAJ    Raise £0.90£1.35£69.92pod1Raise £2.10£3.45£50.58Michael_83Call £1.95£5.40£11.85RyddtrFold     Call £1.20£6.60£68.72Flop  J93   Michael_83Check     Check    pod1Bet £4.95£11.55£45.63Michael_83Fold     Call £4.95£16.50£63.77Turn  6    Check    pod1Bet £8.25£24.75£37.38 Call £8.25£33.00£55.52River  A    Check   

WHOAMI196

strange hand m8, looks like he has QQ, 1010?

i would most likely check the turn here for pot control because hes played whatever he had a bit weird/tricky.

i wouldnt put him on the flush so as played i would v bet the river 16 quid!

AMYBR

You know maybe this is my issue with online.  If you have had a bad feeling throughout hand its ok to opt for pot control.  We dont have to bet in precarious spots.  Why ignore instincts.  You've been called through streets, he has to be holding something.  Anything from a set to KJ to 10Qd.  You've built a 100 BB pot.  We can check it back without being wrong if there is a reasonable chance he's sandbagging.

He's check folding, check calling, or check raising.  Sometimes checking it back, the happy medium is fine.  Heck but thats just me.  Meaning if he's missed he cant call.  Unlikely he calls a bet with a marginal holding.  If he's sandbagging you commit yourself for your stack.  Yes you lose value vs AK/A9/9J, perhaps KKQQ.  But if our instinct has been tugging away at us am happy to sacrifice some value here for information and pot control.

Batkin88

i think ur behind to a set or AA by how this has played i wouldn't put him on KK or QQ
as played check turn pot control and call his lead out at river.

grantorino

dont get the 3bet pre, being ahead of his raising range is not on its own a reason to 3bet, you need to be ahead of his calling range

Tough to say when you have given no reads on his style or any history, I might just check

Dudeskin8

3bet pre is weird for a start it's too small and also you only get called by better surely ?

Flop looks fine and turn.

River I shove Guv !

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree!:

dont get the 3bet pre, being ahead of his raising range is not on its own a reason to 3bet
Posted by grantorino

personaly i dont mind his three bet on the button its pretty standard imo, since its a raise or fold in my book and who cares whats his calling range is we are on zi button. 

grantorino

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree!:

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree! : personaly i dont mind his three bet on the button its pretty standard imo, since its a raise or fold in my book and who cares whats his calling range is we are on zi button. 
Posted by WHOAMI196

Why is it standard? Why is it fold or raise? Why do you not care what his calling range is?

Yes we are on btn and I think we can sometimes 3bet it (more often maybe than when we are 100BB deep) but it certainly depends on villains ranges and tendencies

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree!:

3bet pre is weird for a start it's too small and also you only get called by better surely ?
Posted by Dudeskin8

ie three bet is a bit weak, i think we will get raised by better holdings most of the time imo, but my aim here would be 1 take it down pre(is bonus) 2 take it down on the flop with a decent c bet(works most of the time) 3 if that s£$t dont work ..i might be thinkin ofshuting down and wait for better or equally as good of a spot.

pod1

the player in question had done this a few times stealing my button,like i say he knew his way round a poker table.what i couldnt make out was if he had a big pp i thinkhe woulda re popped me.the c/c c/c c down the streets had me strugglin to put him on a hand. like aymbr says if i bet again im only getting called by better and i was willing to shut down here. like i say,dont think i played it well but didnt see his hand commingMichael_83Small blind £0.15£0.15£13.80VINEY73Sitout    RyddtrBig blind £0.30£0.45£23.76 Your hole cardsAJ   stevemc112Raise £0.90£1.35£69.92pod1Raise £2.10£3.45£50.58Michael_83Call £1.95£5.40£11.85RyddtrFold    stevemc112Call £1.20£6.60£68.72Flop  J93   Michael_83Check    stevemc112Check    pod1Bet £4.95£11.55£45.63Michael_83Fold    stevemc112Call £4.95£16.50£63.77Turn  6   stevemc112Check    pod1Bet £8.25£24.75£37.38stevemc112Call £8.25£33.00£55.52River  A   stevemc112Check    pod1Check    stevemc112Show10K   pod1MuckAJ   stevemc112WinFlush to the Ace£31.35 £86.87PrevClose windowNext

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree!:

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree! : Why is it standard? Why is it fold or raise? Why do you not care what his calling range is? Yes we are on btn and I think we can sometimes 3bet it (more often maybe than when we are 100BB deep) but it certainly depends on villains ranges and tendencies
Posted by grantorino

standard for me! i dont like calling with aj ever esp on the button or any other hand for that matter! i dont care what his calling range is because i crush his overall range in that spot(as from pods perspective).

grantorino

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree!:

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree! : standard for me! i dont like calling with aj ever esp on the button or any other hand for that matter! i dont care what his calling range is because i crush his overall range in that spot(as from pods perspective).
Posted by WHOAMI196

3betting is bad if it makes worse hands fold and is only called/raised by better hands

Also I think assuming a cbet gets thru nearly always is optimistic v a competent villain if he calls the 3bet pre 

WHOAMI196

:O lol nice check m8, that guy is tricky for sure or possibly bad, 

pod1

im leaning towards later tbf after calling flop bet and pos turn as well.but thanks,it just didnt feel right to fire again.

WHOAMI196

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree!:

In Response to Re: very messy hand and if you say we both played it badly, i think i might agree! : 3betting is bad if it makes worse hands fold and is only called/raised by better hands Also I think assuming a cbet gets thru nearly always is optimistic v a competent villain if he calls the 3bet pre 
Posted by grantorino

what? thats jibberish to me! i must play a lot more poker than you, because il be honest i dont generaly think of that stuff(playing scared) when im playin,game to quick i play situationaly .......im thinkin fish limps i iso, 3 bet high% pfr'ers often, dry board or good for me i c-bet,play carefully against nits, that sorta cr-ap....works for me  

p.s three bets dont get wost hands than aj to fold, not the stakes and where i play. 

edit: looks like im being a bi tch again im not, all friends here

yb

i like the 3bet as its btn vs co and we're pretty deep, but i'd make it bigger, probs about £3 total.

i would bet flop slightly smaller and the turn slightly bigger but w/e really, i'm definitely betting river though.

offshoot

Have no idea why you wouldnt bet river.

pod1

to be fair yb and offshoot im not sure why i didnt,somethin just didnt feel right. aa,kk,qq im pretty sure he would of come back over the top pre,and yes im beating ak aq aj ,ppfrom2s-jjs i think would play this way pre. if and it is an if he has hit a set would he play it this way against someone whois firing at him like i have been.not saying i have played this well (like i say in headline) and i agree with your both your  comments,but should i remove gut instinct out of cash play as in the long run its going to cost me money?