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Effects of removal...

edited September 2011 in Area 51
There are 2,598,960 possible combinations of hands from a 52 card deck.

What would the effect be if one of the programmers who wrote the original RNG had been a bit naughty and had written in a couple of lines of code that randomly removed one of the 52 values before dealing. Alternatively, a couple of lines of code could be included that would send a card at random to the bottom of the deck where of course it wouldn't take part in the game. Same effect.

So say the 7d was removed . . .

The chances of hitting quad 7s on the flop would go from 407-1 or 19,599-1 to zero.
The chances of pocket 7s improving to a set would halve.
The chances of any straight requiring a 7 to complete would reduce by 25%
The chances of achieving diamond flush would reduce by 1/13 or 7.7%
The chances of hitting any straight flush requiring 7d would reduce to zero
Yada yada yada . . . .

Taking this thought a step further, how would it affect the game, if only a 10,J,Q,K or A was randomly removed each hand? The value of the remaining 2-9s would increase, as would the probability of hands winning that contained these cards.

Thoughts?





Comments

  • edited September 2011
    In Response to Effects of removal...:
    There are 2,598,960 possible combinations of hands from a 52 card deck. What would the effect be if one of the programmers who wrote the original RNG had been a bit naughty and had written in a couple of lines of code that randomly removed one of the 52 values before dealing. Alternatively, a couple of lines of code could be included that would send a card at random to the bottom of the deck where of course it wouldn't take part in the game. Same effect. So say the 7d was removed . . . The chances of hitting quad 7s on the flop would go from 407-1 or 19,599-1 to zero. The chances of pocket 7s improving to a set would halve. The chances of any straight requiring a 7 to complete would reduce by 25% The chances of achieving diamond flush would reduce by 1/13 or 7.7% The chances of hitting any straight flush requiring 7d would reduce to zero Yada yada yada . . . . Taking this thought a step further, how would it affect the game, if only a 10,J,Q,K or A was randomly removed each hand? The value of the remaining 2-9s would increase, as would the probability of hands winning that contained these cards. Thoughts?
    Posted by Goethe
    I'm just pleased that you took my advice on board and have started to spend your poker time doing something constructive to try and improve your game.


  • edited September 2011
    this is what area 51 is all about! much better than "i had my pocket9s beaten by 64o. you have obviously spent some time on this so a flippant remark or totally dismissing this would be wrong. the only "thought" i would have would be why? how would this benefit anybody and it would of coarse reduce the amount of "glam hands", would serve no help to"new depositors" or the sky poker team players. removing any 10 j q k a from a hand would dramatically reduce the chance of the miracle river card hitting as well surely!
  • edited September 2011
    Cant see how THIS would be relevant on this site as the hands are PRE DETERMINED , whereas if it was a shuffled deck and 1 card was removed then yes it would make a differance
  • edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Effects of removal...:
    Cant see how THIS would be relevant on this site as the hands are PRE DETERMINED , whereas if it was a shuffled deck and 1 card was removed then yes it would make a differance
    Posted by debdobs_67
    sky's rng shuffles the cards before the hands are dealt as in live poker.....

    then the cards are not shuffled again until next hand as far as i know.

    so the board will not be affected after initial shuffle.

    dont know why a programmer would want to be naughty and muck up a piece of software that he has written/installed.

    i imagine he would never work in the industry again?
  • edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Effects of removal...:
    this is what area 51 is all about! much better than "i had my pocket9s beaten by 64o. you have obviously spent some time on this so a flippant remark or totally dismissing this would be wrong. the only "thought" i would have would be why? how would this benefit anybody and it would of coarse reduce the amount of "glam hands", would serve no help to"new depositors" or the sky poker team players. removing any 10 j q k a from a hand would dramatically reduce the chance of the miracle river card hitting as well surely!
    Posted by pod1
    You're right . . . it would disadvantage those players who chase hands, as they may end up chasing hands that could never be made. Probably novice players whetting their appetite for a degenerate hobby. Also possibly those players who carefully calculate the odds as the basis for their calcs could then be wrong. As for miracle river cards, it would mean there'd be a greater chance of it being a 2-9 than one of the values where there's a 20% chance one card would be missing.

    I thought it was a pretty fair Area 51 question ?
  • edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Effects of removal...:
    In Response to Effects of removal... : I'm just pleased that you took my advice on board and have started to spend your poker time doing something constructive to try and improve your game.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    What's the point in making the effort to up your game here - only to see you're slightly improved chances washed away under a deluge of 11-1+ river cards? I've come to the conclusion if I can't beat 'em I may as well join 'em.



  • edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Effects of removal...:
    In Response to Re: Effects of removal... : sky's rng shuffles the cards before the hands are dealt as in live poker..... then the cards are not shuffled again until next hand as far as i know. so the board will not be affected after initial shuffle. dont know why a programmer would want to be naughty and muck up a piece of software that he has written/installed. i imagine he would never work in the industry again?
    Posted by DAVEYZZ
    How about because they can? Ever heard of Easter eggs? Even Microsoft have had the joys of finding these in software that's been available for years.
  • edited September 2011
    Sorry guys, three posts (oops, four) on the trot - that's my ration for the week. Better get back to improving my game. Dohhhhhh . . . . . I mean working on my chasing . . . .
  • edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Effects of removal...:
    Sorry guys, three posts (oops, four) on the trot - that's my ration for the week. Better get back to improving my game. Dohhhhhh . . . . . I mean working on my chasing . . . .
    Posted by Goethe
    Why wont you listen and take advice from winning players who are trying to help you?

    How do I/we become the bad guy?

    Seriously?
  • edited September 2011

    An interesting OP but I can see no good reason for any site to even contemplate this, for a number of reasons.


    1. Any cards removed from the deck would throw up anomalies that would be traceable. The RNG outputs card sequences that are easily audited. Covering up the anomalies would be a massive undertaking. The RNG is tested and certified by independent auditors and they would have no reason to falsify their findings.

    2. The second and most important reason is that there is no reason I can think of that benefits the poker site. There is no gain in them preventing players from making hands. It actually contradicts all the reasons for any site to consider an adjustment to the random selection and delivery of cards.

    3. If the site or sites had a wish list of things they could change this would certainly not be one of them. The goals of any site are the same:

    To retain existing members and attract new members to the site.
    To have an efficient site in order to maximise rake.
    To have successful players.

    None of the above are achieved by removing cards from the deal/deck.

  • edited September 2011
    dam i thought Effects of removal... was getting rid off fishes that kept hitting, as i had a few suggestions. 
  • edited September 2011
    In Response to Re: Effects of removal...:
    In Response to Re: Effects of removal... : Why wont you listen and take advice from winning players who are trying to help you? How do I/we become the bad guy? Seriously?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Sincere apologies . . . having re-read the last bit of the thread I can see how I might have looked to be having a personal dig. It certainly wasn't intended. But you do need to take a lot of what you read here with a large pinch of salt - my ramblings included.
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