Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS

Tikay10

Good morning.

I've just Posted a Blog up, aimed at COMPLETE BEGINNERS to Omaha.

Any questions off the back of that Blog, or ANY Omaha questions, please post on this Thread, & I will try & answer them.

I'd encourage other Omaha players to weigh in with answers, too, so we can all help each other learn "the beautiful game".

As you know, we have a new Omaha Tourney starting @ 10pm tonight, & if it is successful, the plan is to have at least one decent Omaha Tourney every night by November - but that just depends upon demand.

The Blog is HERE

I'll not be around much until Sunday, but will pick up any questions then, if not before. Have a great weekend.

GREGHOGG

One tip i would add is to ensure that your hand descriptions are ON, when you first play Omaha, this will help with the initial inevitable issues with hand reading.

unknown_username

Elsa's tip:


Try and get on a table with Hoggers - that is all ;o)








On a serious note - before I get told off by Tikay (sigh) -

Forget Holdem strategy. Think of Omaha as a game of POTENTIAL - It's a drawing game and so starting hands with broad potential are favoured. Double suited, double connected hands (ie, JsQs Td9d) are strong, whereas two pair (ie. AA KK) will generally have far less potential as the board develops.

JockBMW

Jock's Tip:

Try and keep off a table with Elsadog.  ;o)

yoyo

& be sure to do all u can to get on tikays table

aussie09

aussie09 tip:

try and get on a table with me.

FlyingDagg

Glad to see an interest being pushed for Omaha. I know the simplest basics about the game and have only played for fun money on another site but really enjoyed playing it. I'm going to spend some time at the weekend reading up on Tikays blog and maybe get involved in a game in the near future.

Sky_Dave

Quality bloggage from Kendall, as always.

One thing I've learnt playing this game - and I reckon you should never forget this - is that it's a game where bad beats as you think of them are the norm! People chase a lot, so made hands on the flop get outdrawn more often as they're up against more hands in the hands of more willing players.

The good news is people chase a lot of the time when they really ought not to be. Joy!

DOHHHHHHH

Don't reg for an omaha hi lo sit n go by accident.

especially if you've never played the game before .........

If you do, make sure it's not against a guy who has a shark on skope.

If you have to play a shark, don't play 1 who has literally never lost a game on the site.

If you ignore all the above advice, and you feel the need to take on this guy....

Don't run like this!

fml.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
jason885	Small blind		25.00	25.00	2340.00
DOHHHHHHH	Big blind		50.00	75.00	1585.00
	Your hole cards	6 A 4 A
jason885	Raise		75.00	150.00	2265.00
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		250.00	400.00	1335.00
jason885	Call		200.00	600.00	2065.00
Flop
		A 9 Q
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		400.00	1000.00	935.00
jason885	Raise		1800.00	2800.00	265.00
DOHHHHHHH	All-in		935.00	3735.00	0.00
jason885	Unmatched bet		465.00	3270.00	730.00
jason885	Show	A Q 6 10
DOHHHHHHH	Show	6 A 4 A
Turn
		J
River
		8
jason885	Win high	Straight to the Queen	3270.00		4000.00
	No qualifying low hand

_keenberg

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

Quality bloggage from Kendall, as always. One thing I've learnt playing this game - and I reckon you should never forget this - is that it's a game where bad beats as you think of them are the norm! People chase a lot, so made hands on the flop get outdrawn more often as they're up against more hands in the hands of more willing players. The good news is people chase a lot of the time when they really ought not to be. Joy!
Posted by Sky_Dave

Agreed - 4-card PL Omaha High is a game where you learn alot of useful traits for hold-em such as....

1) How to handle 'glucklicher treffers' & regular runner-runner beats, happen so much, builds anti-tilt defenses !

2) How to smell 'traps' when faced with a big hand (eg second or third nut flush vs nut flush).. these matter far more but also turn up less frequently in hold-em so skills can be transferred...

3) Shows frailty of overpairs out of position when played badly (each PLO hand = 6 x Hold-Em hands pre-flop...

4) Teaches you to be aggressive - giving away free cards is very very risky, especially in Omaha games !!!

5) Teaches you pot-odds in a hurry !!!  Last note for newbies - Pot-limit games differ to No-Limit alOOOOt

Cool blog, luvin the variety... beware the keenberg

unknown_username

Elsa's Tips #2


Straights are common winners in Omaha - every straight must contain either a 5 or a 10.


5's and 10's are strong connectors.


Hoggers considers 2's and 8's as connected - you have been warned!!










(I'm making this up as I go along but I don't think anyone's noticed so far) ;o)

YOUNG_GUN

YG tip, dont chase a straight on a paired board

Position is key as it is in holdem

dont call every hand pre look to play good Drawingig hands eg. 7/8/9/10 hands that work well together and preferably double suited.

Dont get attached to AAxx/KKxx unless you hit a set your not often going to win the pot and dont try getting it all in pre as your never going to be more then 55% favourate pre

KaraWS104

I read somewhere that a 'reasonable' way to start playing Omaha was to be fairly passive, i.e. do a lot of calling in position, even with strong starting hands, so as to get into some pots to get a feel for post-flop play. Is this an approach you'd recommend too? Or should you learn to be more aggressive in / use position from the outset?

_keenberg

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

I read somewhere that a 'reasonable' way to start playing Omaha was to be fairly passive, i.e. do a lot of calling in position, even with strong starting hands, so as to get into some pots to get a feel for post-flop play. Is this an approach you'd recommend too? Or should you learn to be more aggressive in / use position from the outset?
Posted by KaraWS104

You are correct... satrt out passive pre-flop then work the aggression in over time to 'Be Sammy' (Farha) !!!

Post-flop... if it is worth a bet, be aggressive and bet th epot in most instances, free cards a real no-no in the main. Be lucky, if you want to get a read on Omaha go for Hwang's The Big Play - bibical title, Keenberg

Machka

Try and make sure you are playing with 4 cards that work together.

e.g.

10 J Q K

You can think of this as 6 reasonable Hold'em hands

J10
Q10
K10
JQ
JK
QK

Whereas something like

4 J Q K doesn't work well together as

JQ
JK
QK are reasonable hands but

4J
4Q
4K are terrible.

Starting hand selection is key, make then connected where possible.

Giant811

I'm probably the last person to give advice, but here it is anyway:

Don't get married to aces. Too many players bet/call big with aces on every street, even though one pair is rarely enough in Omaha.

Edit: I tried to include an example from tonight, but it won't work, sorry.

robstar99

tbh i'm still not sure how to play aces as i played friday night and flopped a full house with them which virtually trebled me up.

then later on i flopped a set with queens and rivered a house to double me up.

but poker balanced out as i lost a few hands by being rivered!

really enjoyed the tourney so fair play to sky for setting one up as i've only previously played low limit omaha dym's.

Tikay10

Good to see some excellent Omaha tips itt, keep them coming.

Hopefully, & time permitting, I will press on with the "Omaha for Complete beginners" Blogs this week, & I intend to try & upload 2 or 3 more this week.

First, however, I need to wade through a mountain of PM's, sort out a few Competitions & freebies, & get the "Ask tikay" thread updated.   

MkeItRain

Hello!

3 PLO things I'd say were essential to consider all the time are (just got in from a 18 hour live session so bear with me!)

1) Don't play bad draws (espcially out of position) - remember there are nearly 250 times more combo's of hands in PLO than NLHE, so dominating draws are common. The problem with "NON NUT" draws when we call or chk call without being able to make the nuts is when we make our hand it's very difficult to play them efficiently.

If we're OOP and we've made our hand, we don't have the nuts, so we chk and often our oppo will air on the side of caution and check back when we bet him, and as a result when he bets, will often have a better hand, making it very difficult to chk call also.

If we bet  we get a lot of folds from worse hands, calls from better hands and leave ourselves wide open to get raised as a bluff. As a general rule it's not a good idea to try and draw to hands that will put us into tough spots and will be very difficult to gain value from, but will be easy for our opponents to get value from us - avoid this by firstly not calling with too many not nut hands when you're going to be OOP preflop.

2) PLAY TIGHT FROM THE BLINDS - unquestionabley the biggest leak you see as stnd from PLO players is playing too loose from the SB and BB, where people go wrong IMO

 

 - calling too many bad rundowns and non nun hands from the blinds, hands like 3567, AQ96 with out the nut suit etc, hands that will flop bad draws (case of point 1) 

- 3betting too many KK**'s and AA**'s - a lot of big pair combo's have really bad playability postflop, OOP, in HOLDEM it's a fashionable strategy to 3bet players who open wide in late position from the blinds, this isn't an appealing strategy in PLO because people fold to 3bets far less frequently and even " a wide range of hands" will be in half decent shape vs even the strongest of hands we could 3bet. hands like bad AA**'s (AA74single etc) and bad to mid KK**'s (AKK6single, KK62r etc) do not play well vs virtually any range, JUST CALL!

If it's EVER a close desicion in the blinds, o if you're unsure if it's a call or a fold, then 99/100 times - ITS A FOLD.

3) **tOURNAMENT PLO** the fewer big blinds, the bigger the cards!  -  in PLO tournaments HUGE mistakes I see people make all the time is with short stacks, under 20/25 big blinds the value of rundown hands like 5678 decrease rapidly, and the value of "HIGH CARD" hands like AKT9 with a suit and big pairs, AJJ9, QQ97, KK45 etc all drastically increase. This is because people naturally adapt the hands they stack off with preflop to include weaker high card/big pair hands, these do great vs rundowns, but not vs a stronger range of "BIG" hands.

When you're short stacked in PLO tourneys play very tight, and wait for realy strong equitable hands and to take advantage of people's lack of understanding for this point

In response to the questions about starting hands, again as a great rule try to be as tight OOP as you can and look for hands that will have NUT potential (high cards with suited ACEs etc), as you get later in position you can be a bit more speculative more profitabley, always keep an eye on how the player to your left is playing, is he the type to let us steal position often - playing passively, or is he aggrresive and likely not to want to let us steal his late position too often. 

Here is a pretty good article from pokershark about starting hand selection (admitedly, I did write it, but w/e lol ) - I can only find the final draft on this PC so might have a cuple of spelling errors/typo's sorry for that in advance.

download here - http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=715931&dv=1 (feedback welcome)

Hope this is helpful

IRISHROVER

 Tk PM sent regarding a comp for omaha dym .

 Denis .

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

 Tk PM sent regarding a comp for omaha dym .  Denis .
Posted by IRISHROVER

Yes, I have seen it Denis, thank you.

We have a LOT of "Beginners" & then subsequently, "Internediate" Omaha stuff planned & in the pipeline already for the next few weeks, so bear with me please, so we can slot it all together nicely. I'll try & reply to you tomorrow, ditto to the other matter you contacted me about.

Be really good to rev up the Omaha.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

Hello! 3 PLO things I'd say were essential to consider all the time are (just got in from a 18 hour live session so bear with me!) 1) Don't play bad draws (espcially out of position) - remember there are nearly 250 times more combo's of hands in PLO than NLHE, so dominating draws are common. The problem with "NON NUT" draws when we call or chk call without being able to make the nuts is when we make our hand it's very difficult to play them efficiently. If we're OOP and we've made our hand, we don't have the nuts, so we chk and often our oppo will air on the side of caution and check back when we bet him, and as a result when he bets, will often have a better hand, making it very difficult to chk call also. If we bet  we get a lot of folds from worse hands, calls from better hands and leave ourselves wide open to get raised as a bluff. As a general rule it's not a good idea to try and draw to hands that will put us into tough spots and will be very difficult to gain value from, but will be easy for our opponents to get value from us - avoid this by firstly not calling with too many not nut hands when you're going to be OOP preflop. 2) PLAY TIGHT FROM THE BLINDS - unquestionabley the biggest leak you see as stnd from PLO players is playing too loose from the SB and BB, where people go wrong IMO    - calling too many bad rundowns and non nun hands from the blinds, hands like 3567, AQ96 with out the nut suit etc, hands that will flop bad draws (case of point 1)  - 3betting too many KK**'s and AA**'s - a lot of big pair combo's have really bad playability postflop, OOP, in HOLDEM it's a fashionable strategy to 3bet players who open wide in late position from the blinds, this isn't an appealing strategy in PLO because people fold to 3bets far less frequently and even " a wide range of hands" will be in half decent shape vs even the strongest of hands we could 3bet. hands like bad AA**'s (AA74single etc) and bad to mid KK**'s (AKK6single, KK62r etc) do not play well vs virtually any range, JUST CALL! If it's EVER a close desicion in the blinds, o if you're unsure if it's a call or a fold, then 99/100 times - ITS A FOLD. 3) **tOURNAMENT PLO** the fewer big blinds, the bigger the cards!  -  in PLO tournaments HUGE mistakes I see people make all the time is with short stacks, under 20/25 big blinds the value of rundown hands like 5678 decrease rapidly, and the value of "HIGH CARD" hands like AKT9 with a suit and big pairs, AJJ9, QQ97, KK45 etc all drastically increase. This is because people naturally adapt the hands they stack off with preflop to include weaker high card/big pair hands, these do great vs rundowns, but not vs a stronger range of "BIG" hands. When you're short stacked in PLO tourneys play very tight, and wait for realy strong equitable hands and to take advantage of people's lack of understanding for this point In response to the questions about starting hands, again as a great rule try to be as tight OOP as you can and look for hands that will have NUT potential (high cards with suited ACEs etc), as you get later in position you can be a bit more speculative more profitabley, always keep an eye on how the player to your left is playing, is he the type to let us steal position often - playing passively, or is he aggrresive and likely not to want to let us steal his late position too often.  Here is a pretty good article from pokershark about starting hand selection (admitedly, I did write it, but w/e lol ) - I can only find the final draft on this PC so might have a cuple of spelling errors/typo's sorry for that in advance. download here -  http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=715931&dv=1  (feedback welcome) Hope this is helpful
Posted by MkeItRain

Wow, that's some Post, thank you, & thank you for the other 5 Posts you have made today, that's some debut you have made on sky Poker Forum, more please.

I have a pretty strong feeling I know who you are, too.....;)

Welcome aboard, & thank you.

PS - For me, that Link does not work.

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS : Yes, I have seen it Denis, thank you. We have a LOT of "Beginners" & then subsequently, "Internediate" Omaha stuff planned & in the pipeline already for the next few weeks, so bear with me please, so we can slot it all together nicely. I'll try & reply to you tomorrow, ditto to the other matter you contacted me about. Be really good to rev up the Omaha.
Posted by Tikay10

N1 Tony.

WHOAMI196

Make it Rain...seen some good post by you .Whats your story m8 !!!!

Ye so Omaha i used to watch this guy and im sure hes flipping patrick antounious, what do you think lol v goosd though...

http://www.winnergambling.com/poker/poker-training-videos/  

...theres a few to chose from GL

MkeItRain

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

Make it Rain...seen some good post by you .Whats your story m8 !!!! 
Posted by WHOAMI196

haha thank you, and Yes tikay you do know who I am :P sorry never saw the replies

erm, not much to tell really, play 6max and HU plo mainly not managed to make a debut on Sky Poker yet but hopefully I will soon!

Tikay10

For those not aware, Mr "MkeItRain" is one of the best, & most articulate, Omaha players you would ever meet, despite his tender years. (He's younger than Delaney).

He dominates the Poker Hand Analysis Board elsewhere with incisive comments, & is much respected by all. Plays big Omaha cash games, live & Online, but his real skill is explaining how Omaha works, & helping others understand the higher level basics.
 
Right now, he is off to Vegas, to grind the Live Omaha games, & I'm meeting up with out there him in a few weeks for Dinner, at a KFC, I hope.

When we get back, I'm hopeful he will be helping us out here with his Omaha expertise. I can coach the basic Level 1 & 2 stuff, but we need something like him for the bigger, more advanced stuff. He da man.


 

delaney09

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

For those not aware, Mr "MkeItRain" is one of the best, & most articulate, Omaha players you would ever meet, despite his tender years. (He's younger than Delaney). He dominates the Poker Hand Analysis Board elsewhere with incisive comments, & is much respected by all. Plays big Omaha cash games, live & Online, but his real skill is explaining how Omaha works, & helping others understand the higher level basics.   Right now, he is off to Vegas, to grind the Live Omaha games, & I'm meeting up with out there him in a few weeks for Dinner, at a KFC, I hope. When we get back, I'm hopeful he will be helping us out here with his Omaha expertise. I can coach the basic Level 1 & 2 stuff, but we need something like him for the bigger, more advanced stuff. He da man.  
Posted by Tikay10

finally i lose the young title above my ahead (although i doubt it as i am not old enough to go to vegas yet *sigh*)

MP33

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

YG tip, dont chase a straight on a paired board Position is key as it is in holdem dont call every hand pre look to play good Drawingig hands eg. 7/8/9/10 hands that work well together and preferably double suited. Dont get attached to AAxx/KKxx unless you hit a set your not often going to win the pot and dont try getting it all in pre as your never going to be more then 55% favourate pre
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

If the blinds are worth stealing is it not best to play the AA xx  all in pre, even if its a bad AA like AA410  as your stil likely to be ahead of all hands before the cards come down ?

tikay1

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS : If the blinds are worth stealing is it not best to play the AA xx  all in pre, even if its a bad AA like AA410  as your stil likely to be ahead of all hands before the cards come down ?
Posted by MP33

It's usually - almost always, in fact - Pot Limit, so getting it all in Pre is not possible unless Villain "co-operates". "One pair" is rarely going to be good by the River, though. You'd be about 55/45 pre-flop against a good Omaha hand, so essentially a flip. 

Giant811

Hi Tikay, will there ever be a sequel? With OHL2 going strong and FLOPS/UKOPS having PLO events the interest in Omaha is stronger than ever, so I think there are many 4-card novices out there who would appreciate you sharing some of your wisdom. Thanks!

bandini

In Response to Re: Omaha for COMPLETE BEGINNERS:

Hi Tikay, will there ever be a sequel? With OHL2 going strong and FLOPS/UKOPS having PLO events the interest in Omaha is stronger than ever, so I think there are many 4-card novices out there who would appreciate you sharing some of your wisdom. Thanks!
Posted by Giant811

+1. Played OHL2 after winning free entries and loved it. Looking forward to the next parts Tikay.