90% confident gd enough??

debdobs_67

If ya have great notes and reads on a player trying to steal pots on the river then my call here is gd vs these players long term yeah ??

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
zzz	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£12.98
debdobs_67	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£18.46
	Your hole cards	A K
graham1941	Fold
polka	Call		£0.20	£0.50	£13.56
zzz	Raise		£0.90	£1.40	£12.08
debdobs_67	Call		£0.80	£2.20	£17.66
polka	Fold
Flop
		3 8 5
zzz	Bet		£1.10	£3.30	£10.98
debdobs_67	Call		£1.10	£4.40	£16.56
Turn
		7
zzz	Check
debdobs_67	Bet		£1.80	£6.20	£14.76
zzz	Call		£1.80	£8.00	£9.18
River
		5
zzz	All-in		£9.18	£17.18	£0.00
debdobs_67	Call		£9.18	£26.36	£5.58
zzz	Show	10 Q
debdobs_67	Show	A K
debdobs_67	Win	Pair of 5s	£25.04		£30.62

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jimchree24

I would not call on the river as thats a few cards he could of hit or he could of had a small pair, he could of had a straight or a small flush but fair do for the hero call as if you read well then its up to you to call but in the end you are calling with only Ace high

AMYBR

I dont think your making this call without a solid sense of dynamic. reads and notes.

Without having those it does look stationy and spewy.  But credit to you indeed if you put him on un paired paint, which frankly I think you must do.

Hard to armchair analyse this one, but feel like saying "Nice brag post".  Because, if this is done with a cast iron read, its great.

Issue being its not a clear cut river steal, as he has barrelled the whole way.

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

I dont think your making this call without a solid sense of dynamic. reads and notes. Without having those it does look stationy and spewy.  But credit to you indeed if you put him on un paired paint, which frankly I think you must do. Hard to armchair analyse this one, but feel like saying "Nice brag post".  Because, if this is done with a cast iron read, its great. Issue being its not a clear cut river steal, as he has barrelled the whole way.
Posted by AMYBR

All of ure points are spot on mate here , ive got em on AK , AQ , AJ and poss KQ as said player plays these hands exactly this way AND of course plenty of shovin players off of pots this way BUT gettin calls and showin zippo.

Dont worry tho prob next time i feel ive got this kind of call in me ive  gotta have the EXACT feel for it and nowt less )

AMYBR

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough?? : All of ure points are spot on mate here , ive got em on AK , AQ , AJ and poss KQ as said player plays these hands exactly this way AND of course plenty of shovin players off of pots this way BUT gettin calls and showin zippo. Dont worry tho prob next time i feel ive got this kind of call in me ive  gotta have the EXACT feel for it and nowt less )
Posted by debdobs_67

This ties in nicely to the thread that I put up earler.  As if you have a solid read on opponents range, this becomes an "easy call" the whole way through, IN THE RIGHT SPOT.

Nice hand

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough?? : This ties in nicely to the thread that I put up earler.  As if you have a solid read on opponents range, this becomes an "easy call" the whole way through, IN THE RIGHT SPOT. Nice hand
Posted by AMYBR

Yeah tbh this is prob like 1 time in 20 AK's that have got to the river this way with myself floatin for the A or K that ive called ANY kind of bet too let alone an all-in.

As ive stated on another thread ive ONLY been single tabling at this level this week as i moved up to it and i have been trying to avoid playing the same players as i want as many notes i can get on all oppo's who play this level , this worked for me at nl10 so i figured no point changing it.

I have also noted 3 or 4 players who i am very keen to AVOID at this level as they are very HARD to read and very AGGRO.

I also dont always play i simply load a table and take notes.

DOHHHHHHH

wow!

I dont like this Debs.....

it's not gonna work very often.

I'd really like to see you start 3betting AK, especially out of position.

I know it's "only ace high", but we're playing poker, not cards, we're playing the players.

Sick call tho! lol Nice when it works.

Dudeskin8

Surely you're burning money here long term, I mean come on this is just lunatic play, I don't care how good your notes are calling 45 bb shoves on river with AK high can't be good lolz.

Also nice brag post, make sure you post it when it goes wrong lol

Also don't say - 'My reads were like super solid yh' nah no reads can be this good long term lol

BLACK_MASS

You are a mad puppy debdobs. Only a woman can play like that.
Obviously it is good long-term as long as the validity of your notes and reads remain consistent.
You just posted this to freak out people that wanted to bluff you right cos you've had enough ?
I am amazed that you asked the question about long-term because you already know the answer.
Fancy a game of Russian Roulette ?  
You called............Genius x x x  sick

AMYBR

Thing is dudeskin poster isnt talking longterm.  They are talking hand and dynamic specific.  Of course were not always stationing 3 streets with A high.

I get the feeling poster stations flop and turn as pure non believer.  If a non believer on flop and turn River doesnt change a great deal, other than obv.

So if we can carry on through streets as non believer we essentially have to call river.  Yes playing like this as standard is going to be awful.  But I dont get the impression poster is playing AK this way as syandard.  Thread title and action seem to be a good sell, to me anywho.

BLACK_MASS

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

I dont think your making this call without a solid sense of dynamic. reads and notes. Without having those it does look stationy and spewy.  But credit to you indeed if you put him on un paired paint, which frankly I think you must do. Hard to armchair analyse this one, but feel like saying "Nice brag post".  Because, if this is done with a cast iron read, its great. Issue being its not a clear cut river steal, as he has barrelled the whole way.
Posted by AMYBR

+1 this is mad, genius or both. I could propose to her on the basis of this read. Champion. Glad you picked up on it. Debdob nu-ungar.

yb

3bet pre, especially as the pfr is only 60bbs deep

debdobs_67

Some of ya dont seem to get that im playin poker vs certain oppos that im wholly confident against , lets just say that it worked this time and as dohhhh does on a regular basis , advertising can have many many many benefits )

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

Surely you're burning money here long term, I mean come on this is just lunatic play, I don't care how good your notes are calling 45 bb shoves on river with AK high can't be good lolz. Also nice brag post, make sure you post it when it goes wrong lol Also don't say - 'My reads were like super solid yh' nah no reads can be this good long term lol
Posted by Dudeskin8

Cant wait for ya to start playin me at this level dude m8 , should be very interesting )

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

Thing is dudeskin poster isnt talking longterm.  They are talking hand and dynamic specific.  Of course were not always stationing 3 streets with A high. I get the feeling poster stations flop and turn as pure non believer.  If a non believer on flop and turn River doesnt change a great deal, other than obv. So if we can carry on through streets as non believer we essentially have to call river.  Yes playing like this as standard is going to be awful.  But I dont get the impression poster is playing AK this way as syandard.  Thread title and action seem to be a good sell, to me anywho.
Posted by AMYBR

dudeskin reads the parts and interprets them the way he wants to see it , im just suprised he didnt highlite thses parts in BOLD )

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough?? : Cant wait for ya to start playin me at this level dude m8 , should be very interesting )
Posted by debdobs_67

Well as you're a REG I most likely won't AIM to play you as that would be negative EV lolz and if I did I'd most likely do pretty well looking at this, oh and I also realise you play this way against maniacs and I think its fairly obvz I don't fall into that catorgory so you would probably have to find AA v KK or just keep 3betting me light as you know I'll fold anything.

Dudeskin8

Also as for hand obvz 3bet pre, but you're against that for some reason lol.

Flop as played is surely fold with Ace high no draw but of course he bluffs.

Turn you bet just under half pot, why are you betting, for value or as bluff but if you know he's bluffing anyway why do you need to ?

River he shoves and you flat with Ace high, I just can't understand this as you say you won't 3bet with AK as it's only Ace high but you will call off on river with it when 1 pair beats you can you explain this please ?

WHOAMI196

nice instincts debs, but cant see how you got a solid read on him there, maybie the shove did it for you?..dunno. 

good long term?no. personaly i would not want to be in that situation often it aint profitable spot, its so close its ridic and i have been there myself...

this guy three bet me tons, i took a stand with a good ace and i felt i had a solid read on his betting patterns but this call was with added frustration as he had three bet me alot and i was hitting nothing, i felt fak it you have either hit the river or you have nothing and i called like i didnt care.... 

he three bet pre-flop, checked the flop!, bet turn(i call) and bet nearly pot on the river...i call

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/hand1d.jpg/

and surprisingly im good

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/hand2k.jpg/

this happened a while ago, and i cant remeber a spot like this that happened receantly .. because if i did it often i would probably be broke

debdobs_67

Exactly whoami , i may never do this again unless i feel exactly the same way , dudeskin you should watch some others that make calls like this at this and much higher levels , WHY do they do this cos they have the same feel as i did in this one.

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

Also as for hand obvz 3bet pre, but you're against that for some reason lol. Flop as played is surely fold with Ace high no draw but of course he bluffs. Turn you bet just under half pot, why are you betting, for value or as bluff but if you know he's bluffing anyway why do you need to ? River he shoves and you flat with Ace high, I just can't understand this as you say you won't 3bet with AK as it's only Ace high but you will call off on river with it when 1 pair beats you can you explain this please ?
Posted by Dudeskin8

Answers to ure questions

1. No i aint against it i just dont ALWAYS do it ( not sure what the LOL was for tho , sarcasm prob ?? )

2. There is nowt wrong with floating AK to try and hit is there ??

3. Why NOT bet if weve both missed he folds , should do , BUT ive already put him on a missed draw so lets continue with the hand

4. Well i call his all in cos i believe i have the best hand , not sure why ya say i FLAT this as i cant re-raise can i ?? LOL

AMYBR

Its nice to see this.

I've always said there are multiple ways to skin a cat.  We dont have to conform to dogmatic lines, it being unwise to do so.  Sometimes having to play a hand wrong to get it right and vice versa.  EV is a core element of game, but not the ONLY element

grantorino

nh debs

u r d nuts

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough?? : Answers to ure questions 1. No i aint against it i just dont ALWAYS do it ( not sure what the LOL was for tho , sarcasm prob ?? ) 2. There is nowt wrong with floating AK to try and hit is there ?? 3. Why NOT bet if weve both missed he folds , should do , BUT ive already put him on a missed draw so lets continue with the hand 4. Well i call his all in cos i believe i have the best hand , not sure why ya say i FLAT this as i cant re-raise can i ?? LOL
Posted by debdobs_67

1. I think 3betting is better as you get value from worse hands, as you play it you often miss like here and without soul reads, which you clearly have, you just check fold.

2. You say floating but you know he's bluffing so you don't even need to hit, if he bets the turn half pot do you just call again or raise as a bluff or fold with Ace high ?

3. If you've both missed and you put him on lower high cards than you then surely you should just let him bluff on river as betting turn makes him fold most times and you lose value (here obvz he called turn with air too but  most won't and will instead take stab on river where you call as you KNOW it' a bluff.

4. Flat/call same thing, as for knowing I still can't be sure on that, say if it was at NL100 with players playing eachother over thousands of hands then concrete reads can be forged but I can't see how you can do that, for example yes he plays Q10 this way, but do you know if he plays stright draws the same, 46 for instance (yes unlikely in SB but cud happen if aggro) could cbet flop with draw check turn when hit, flat your bet then shove river, bad line of course but he could do that. Also any flush draw, cbet flop on draw, slow down on turn flat your halfpot bet wiv nice odds then boom he hits and goes for max value.

debdobs_67

All of ure points are perfectly valid dude mate and as ive said this was simply ONE occasion , but my thread was purely based on IF i believe that I do have the correct read ie 90% sure then do i HAVE to call the river shove.

liamboi11

really nice call debs I do agree with some of their posts it does look nuts but we aint at the table with this opponent and seen what has been goin on so go with your gut if u strongly think he has nothing at all well i say wp,only one question though y dont you 3 bet the hand pre ?

LOL_RAISE

posting hands in forums where you are making calls like this is pointless w/o giving us reads or previous history.

in a vacuum it looks bad.

with reads/dynamics etc it can be good

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: 90% confident gd enough??:

posting hands in forums where you are making calls like this is pointless w/o giving us reads or previous history. in a vacuum it looks bad. with reads/dynamics etc it can be good
Posted by LOL_RAISE

There was 3 previous occasions when villian had done some thing on river (tho not all in) just 1/2-3/4 pot bets and been called and shown nothing , ive got notes that villian has done this b4 and seems well cabable of tryin to steal the pot on the river , all with Paint Cards , the only river tbh that woulda made me fold was a Q or a J as this was in his range of hands and obv i was holdin neither , obv IF hes playin with me and got AA KK QQ JJ then well played to him.
There have obv been scores of times when ive been in similar situations and have folded insta but felt a strong feel i was gonna be correct this time.