Overpair check raised on flop

Dudeskin8

Never seen them play, also only single table.

x	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£10.75
tirurirus	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£9.98
	Your hole cards	J J
jets10	Fold
rigsby7	Fold
Dudeskin8	Raise		£0.30	£0.45	£17.02
x	Call		£0.25	£0.70	£10.50
tirurirus	Fold
Flop
		10 9 4
x	Check
Dudeskin8	Bet		£0.53	£1.23	£16.49
x	Raise		£2.29	£3.52	£8.21
Dudeskin8

Lambert180

That's a mighty big check-raise and I can't really see a hand he's gonna do it with that you're beating. No flush obviously, and I can't see a raise that big coming from someone who's flopped an open ended straight draw, so it's gotta be a bigger overpair, a set, or maybe a dodgy 2pr

liamboi11

that is a big check raise the obv are sets and 2 pairs but he could be doing this with a 10(a10,k10,q10,j10) or even 87 for the open ender so sometimes a call with position see what my opponent does on the turn and re-evaluate but thats just my opinion m8

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop:

that is a big check raise the obv are sets and 2 pairs but he could be doing this with a 10(a10,k10,q10,j10) or even 87 for the open ender so sometimes a call with position see what my opponent does on the turn and re-evaluate but thats just my opinion m8
Posted by liamboi11

You really think he does this enormous check-raise with just TPTK down to TP average kicker?? And why only 87 for the open-ender, why not QJ as well? but anyway, I can't imagine someone would check raise so big with nothing but an open ender.

3barrels

he could be doing this with a under pair also if he dont wanna see anymore cards he could be repping a big hand when infact his hand is weak  just my 2 cents worth

liamboi11

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop:

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop : You really think he does this enormous check-raise with just TPTK down to TP average kicker?? And why only 87 for the open-ender, why not QJ as well? but anyway, I can't imagine someone would check raise so big with nothing but an open ender.
Posted by Lambert180

im sayin that is possibility how do you only only raise check raise the nuts and a missed out qj and you cant imagine someone check raisin with their draws I personally do it a lot of the time and works for me most times ever heard of giving yourself two ways of winnin the hand?

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop:

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop : im sayin that is possibility how do you only only raise check raise the nuts and a missed out qj and you cant imagine someone check raisin with their draws I personally do it a lot of the time and works for me most times ever heard of giving yourself two ways of winnin the hand?
Posted by liamboi11

At this level there should be very little bluffing if your game, semi-bluffing is ok but just leading out with 3/4 pot bet on the flop would be a semi-bluff, check-raising looks very strong (which QJ and 87 aren't) and I don't think it's necessary with draws (AT THIS LEVEL) and also the size of the check raise is massive! Please tell me you wouldn't check raise this much with just an open ended straight draw? If he's check-raising this big with an open ended straight draw, he's losing money long term.

liamboi11

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop:

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop : At this level there should be very little bluffing if your game, semi-bluffing is ok but just leading out with 3/4 pot bet on the flop would be a semi-bluff, check-raising looks very strong (which QJ and 87 aren't) and also the size of the check raise is massive. If he's check-raising this big with an open ended straight draw, he's losing money long term.
Posted by Lambert180

I understand what your sayin m8 maybe the opponent doesn`t understand all of this maybe he does but i`m just puttin out the possibilites what he could have or be repping

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop:

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop : I understand what your sayin m8 maybe the opponent doesn`t understand all of this maybe he does but i`m just puttin out the possibilites what he could have or be repping
Posted by liamboi11

Ok, fair enough. Just looking at it in terms of the range of hands he would do this with, realistically the only thing he's gonna do this with is QJ and 87 which you're not that far ahead of QJ (he has an overcard as well) whereas there are TONS of hands where he has you crushed.

debdobs_67

Well ive certainly check raised like this as it DOES give ya 2 ways of winnin the hand if im on a open ender str8 or flush draw , diff to tell unless ya have an idea of oppos plays.

Lambert180

It does give you 2 ways to win but he's raised from 53p to £2.29, do you not think he could have got the job done alot cheaper? If you were villian and Dude re-shoves, do you call best part of 100BBs with open ender and possibly 1 overcard depending on which open ender you got? I don't personally.

AMYBR

This looks alot like a counter to a perceived c-bet to me.  Am often going to do this myself.

Lambert180

Do you re-raise this big when you do it?

AMYBR

I likely make it £1.7, if I'm taking that line

But for some reason this is the vibe i get from this hand.

Best I'd put opponent on is paint 10. 

Thing is this is why we hate J's.

We've isolated to to the blinds pre, am happy to make a committing 3 bet here.  May be a cooler, but we beat much of opponents range here, the way action plays pre.

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: Overpair check raised on flop:

It does give you 2 ways to win but he's raised from 53p to £2.29, do you not think he could have got the job done alot cheaper? If you were villian and Dude re-shoves, do you call best part of 100BBs with open ender and possibly 1 overcard depending on which open ender you got? I don't personally.
Posted by Lambert180

IF ya wanna take this line and were only assuming they have an open ender then yes you can either hit ure hand on the turn and have effectively the nuts OR take the pot there and then , IF dude then shoves to this reraise ive certainly been prepared to stack off on an open ender , the times it hits and the times it misses aint far off of at least breakin even + as ya say they may have QJ and oppo may feel he also has 2 overcards vs dude , he dont know dude has JJ does he ??

PS lets NOT forget that some players are more than prepared to take a GAMBLE to win a stack , rec players mostly.

murray69

Get it in,