NL4 cash, maniac shoving

Pysterman

I was recently at a table where a player was regularly shoving pre-flop (I mean, virtually every hand) with complete rubbish. He'd been called and managed to get lucky a few times, building a hefty stack, which just encouraged him more.

I managed to avoid getting involving in a major pot with him, but I was wondering what tactics you would employ against him.

The way I played it was to try to wait for a high pair as I figured that even with a hand like AK I wouldn't like to be raised all-in, even if I knew my opponent probably had nothing. A bit too much of a coin flip to risk my whole buy-in.

As it happened, he left before I could get involved, but do you think I was right to wait for a monster, or should I have been getting stuck in if I knew he was shoving light?

For example, in one hand, the whole table limped in. I was on the BB and raised to 20p with KQ. The first two limpers called (yes, perhaps I should have raised more, but then KQ isn't that great) then this guy shoved all-in. I knew he was probably weak, but I just couldn't bring myself to risk a whole buy-in with KQ. He was called by another player and turned over 10-2 suited. As it happened, my KQ would have held up against both hands.

sillymunch

no, you have to wait for a monster someone once was doing this to me, and i called with AQ, and she lost her stack, she came back did it again and then i called her shove on AK, when you get a hand like AK, if someone is shoving light you cant afford to not get involved, cus AK is a + profit hand, and so yes you may lose at times but against any 2 hands you completely dominate them

Pysterman

I think the difficulty is the cash involved when you're all in.

To look at an extreme example...

Imagine there's a game where you pay £1000 to play. You roll a fair dice and if you roll a 6 you win £10,000.

Now, from a mathematical point of view, this is a GREAT game to play. Over time, you'll win an average of £667 each time you play.

However, would I play the game once right now if I could? Probably not, because there's 83% chance I'd lose £1000.

Now, I know that 1 buy-in at a NL4 cash table isn't the same thing, but a similar principle applies. Yes, I know that mathematically I should call him if I'm sure he's shoving light, but sometimes I just don't fancy risking the cash unless I'm a heavy favourite.

sillymunch

yes but if your using proper BRM then even on a larger stakes you should call, because even if you lose it wont hurt your BR, if you really dont wanna call with AK against an all in player then the recommendation is find another table without the all in guy

The_Don90

i pick a range and call.

I prefer to isolate the pot v the shover too. Mostly when you have a player like this youll see the table fill with regs, at NL4 this includes myself. When one of us call, none others teand to without a big hand, But any 60/40 shot is +EV long term so im calling.

My range against people who shove every hand does widen as i know im so much +Ev against them and lets face it, they aint going to sit around will i wait for aces. So if im last to act/call i will often call with a pretty wide range myself.

Also Sillymunch if your folding AK v these villians your losing serious amount of value. Ive spoken to you about ur BR and i know your situation so i can understand if they shove 72 and u snap AK and they hit a 2 how much it can hurt, out of experiance. However this is why ive learnt recently we play with a BR, so that we make money long term, and not on the short term

Dudeskin8

Yh these guys are like gold dust but sadly don't last very long so it's all about how kucky you get to find a hand. On NL10 yesterday I had a guy previously open shove 53 bb's I had nowt but then he did it again I found AQ and snapped him off, of course his J10 catched up but I win longterm so it's fine plus when he wins he thinks he played it well and could stay longer.

YOUNG_GUN

Pick a wider range and call, if you are seeing them stack of any 2 or lighter then Q8 pick hands that have good equity vs them eg AQ/KQ/ AK, any pocket pairs although marginal against maniacs you will have to dodge a few bullets. you can tighten up but you may not pick up the 10s+ AK/AQ which will be crushing them but aren't going to come up too often so i would suggest making marginal calls as over the long term it should be profitable if you are picking a good rang of hands to go against them.

rancid

A10+ 

88+

GO GET EM

ensure there doing this light because there are a few open shovers with AA/KK