Building a bankroll with bad luck.

Pipunch

I only ever put £10 on my account at a time, and play 30-60p sit n go's. I'm having the worst run of luck ever.

How is it possible to build up my bankroll whilst playing such small priced games and combatting bad luck? Seems any hand i have at the moment is being beaten, AA's all in pre-flop after raising is being beaten by a miracle 222 on the river. I just had AJ suited, lots of pre flop action and i suspected that my opponent only had pocket pairs. I took the risk, all in. Opponent has 55. Flop comes AJ9. Turn is 8. River is 5.

Stuff like this is happening again and again to me recently, no matter how i play the hand. Any advice?

YOUNG_GUN

If you keep depositing say £10 a week, i would suggest wait until you can deposit £50. the problem with only depositing £10 there is so much variance in the game you need to be very lucky to build a roll from that. I have done it a couple times in the past but its not easy at all.

If you do continue to deposit only £10 then may i suggest if you lose 2 games in row you quit for another day/ another hour that way you wont get tilted as easy.

I hope this helps and best of luck. Welcome to the forums

John

Pipunch

Yeah i've heard the more money you have behind you the easier it gets, but what would be the difference between losing with £50 in my account and not being able to win through bad luck with £10 in it. Seems extremely difficult to build up the bankroll.

Pipunch

Do you think playing in such small stakes games might be against my strategy? What i mean is, is someone with a pathetic pocket pair going to fold to huge preflop action under the gun if the sit n go is worth say £5 instead of just 30p, where they think it may be worth the risk because the tournament is worth peanuts?

YOUNG_GUN

No dont ever make that mistake, the lower levels are the easiest to beat but can be higher variance. The reason for this is people will chase draws more and not take into account the correct odds just what their holding. In regards to it is 100x better to start with £50 because it will give you a sufficient starting role if you lose a few games your mindset would be different aswell. Also make sure by reviewing your hands and discussing on here or with poker friends that you are making the correct decsions.

From £10 you will need alot of luck it gives you under 15 BI for 60p DYM and because of rake you will need to win around 3 in 4 to build your role

debdobs_67

If you want to take poker seriously , im assuming this cos the way that you seem keen to build a bankroll , and you think you can really play the game , i mean startin ranges , bet sizing and above all how to play position then without doubt the easiest way to build is playin cash.You incur far less variance as ure never trying to combat blind levels and you can sit patiently and wait for hands to come.DOHHHHHHH has posted a very very easy to understand guide on micro stakes cash play and it is both very helpful and informative.If you decide to take this route i would suggest waitin till you can deposit £80 , this will give you 20 buy-ins at the 2p/4p cash tables and is an excellent way to build ure roll.

Gl at the tables

debbydobby x

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

No dont ever make that mistake, the lower levels are the easiest to beat but can be higher variance. The reason for this is people will chase draws more and not take into account the correct odds just what their holding. In regards to it is 100x better to start with £50 because it will give you a sufficient starting role if you lose a few games your mindset would be different aswell. Also make sure by reviewing your hands and discussing on here or with poker friends that you are making the correct decsions. From £10 you will need alot of luck it gives you under 15 BI for 60p DYM and because of rake you will need to win around 3 in 4 to build your role
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

With a £50 starting roll then what price games would you think i should play in?

pod1

put a few hands in the clinc. there may well be parts of the your game that needs some attention. 1 little thing you say concerned me was the aj hand and your comment i thought he only had a pocket pair! please understand he is winning at this point and you need to hit to win.like i say all here to help.  phil

YOUNG_GUN

if you deposited purely for DYM, i would still start right at the bottom and when you have proved you are a consistent winner and are rolled 20 BI + for level above then take a shot, read JohnConnor's Blog thread in GPC im sure it will help you alot. 20 BI rule is quite aggressive and some may recommend 40+ it depends the more buy ins you have the less likely you will ever need to deposit again.

GL

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

put a few hands in the clinc. there may well be parts of the your game that needs some attention. 1 little thing you say concerned me was the aj hand and your comment i thought he only had a pocket pair! please understand he is winning at this point and you need to hit to win.like i say all here to help.  phil
Posted by pod1

Yeah i understand he was winning, but i felt like an A or J pairing up would be sufficient to win the pot and that it was worth the risk with the amount of chips i had left. 

Is it possible to point me in the direction of the micro stakes guide by dohhhhh please someone?

YOUNG_GUN

Search this Section its a very long read but definately worthwhile, someone maybe able to link it if not Search: nl4 Dohhhh strategy

also GPC search: ABC DYM JohnConnor

these are a must for any new players Dohhh's is specifically to nl4
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a2e4f51cb-c64c-449f-a843-8db9c5fe7283Forum%3a1c6aca1e-3fea-4914-8d99-3f30a0f01e50Discussion%3acef563fb-361e-47c1-a67d-10f1a521679e

whereas JC's is for Dym from microstakes to £11
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3ab55fd99f-4159-4232-8c44-d45028e00a4c

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

Search this Section its a very long read but definately worthwhile, someone maybe able to link it if not Search: nl4 Dohhhh strategy also GPC search: ABC DYM JohnConnor these are a must for any new players Dohhh's is specifically to nl4 https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a2e4f51cb-c64c-449f-a843-8db9c5fe7283Forum%3a1c6aca1e-3fea-4914-8d99-3f30a0f01e50Discussion%3acef563fb-361e-47c1-a67d-10f1a521679e whereas JC's is for Dym from microstakes to £11 https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3ab55fd99f-4159-4232-8c44-d45028e00a4c
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

Thanks a lot for the help!

pod1

see you can be nice yg, must just be sillymunch you dont like!! lol

YOUNG_GUN

Your most welcome buddy, Best of luck in whatever you decide and above all run good

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

see you can be nice yg, must just be sillymunch you dont like!! lol
Posted by pod1

I think im one or the other really, i have alot of opinions so obviously i will say things. Above all im a nice guy as you know, cheers for the £20 btw when can i have my next payment?

oops dont derail thread banter on fb maybe

DOHHHHHHH

10 quid sounds more than enough to be playing 30p sit n go's....

Any questions with the blog ask on here.

Definitely don't move up until you can at least break even at 30p dyms.

pod1

only jesting mate,good advice to pip. i am just waiting for jj to do an essay on nl30!

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

10 quid sounds more than enough to be playing 30p sit n go's.... Any questions with the blog ask on here. Definitely don't move up until you can at least break even at 30p dyms.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I read your article, very interesting.

So would you recommend not moving up until i have 20x the buy in, and i've also consistently won at least 6/10 games for maybe a few days/weeks?

I've only been playing for about 6 months and i'm improving all the time, just want a bit more consistency. It sucks to win 12/15 games and then go through a period where you win 3/15.

pod1

yes definatly to the first 2 questions and the last bit unfortunatly is just varience .

Pipunch

So hang on, even if i was to win 6/10 30p games, i still wouldn't be making any money would i? 6x50p (winnings) would make me break even. So would i need to be winning 7 to make money?

unknown_username

This is the problem with micro stakes SNG's. I could never do much with them to be honest due to the rake. Its so hard to beat the rake and variance even if you are the best player at the table i found. I gave up and started playing cash and the odd MTT and have grown my account that way. Dunno if you want to do that?

I started with 8 quid in March and had a couple of good cash results and soon had 20 quid and with great nittyness i kept it safe whilst grinding it up.

You been playing these for 6 months?

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

This is the problem with micro stakes SNG's. I could never do much with them to be honest due to the rake. Its so hard to beat the rake and variance even if you are the best player at the table i found. I gave up and started playing cash and the odd MTT and have grown my account that way. Dunno if you want to do that? I started with 8 quid in March and had a couple of good cash results and soon had 20 quid and with great nittyness i kept it safe whilst grinding it up. You been playing these for 6 months?
Posted by DrSharp

I've been playing small stakes sit n go's, the odd MTT and the odd bit of cash, as well as freerolls. Up to now i've cashed in about 50% of freerolls i've played in, winning 2 of them overall, and my biggest win so far on MTT has been £36. Up to now i've been indisciplined, moving up in stakes after a good run only to find i'll come crashing down to skint after a few bad beats. Time to be more disciplined for me. I think cash games could be a good way to build because i play ultra tight (i think the fact you're betting your actual money instead of chips accounts for this).

So have you managed to build up a decent bankroll for yourself this way?

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck. : I've been playing small stakes sit n go's, the odd MTT and the odd bit of cash, as well as freerolls. Up to now i've cashed in about 50% of freerolls i've played in, winning 2 of them overall, and my biggest win so far on MTT has been £36. Up to now i've been indisciplined, moving up in stakes after a good run only to find i'll come crashing down to skint after a few bad beats. Time to be more disciplined for me. I think cash games could be a good way to build because i play ultra tight (i think the fact you're betting your actual money instead of chips accounts for this). So have you managed to build up a decent bankroll for yourself this way?
Posted by Pipunch

Hey, listen. I am in no way a good poker player. I only started myself at the beginning of the year from a total rookie. 

Anyway, my advice from someone who has been where you are. Bankroll management is the absolute key here. When you win an MTT or some decent money from one, DO NOT up stakes. It always ends up back at zero. You want at least 20 buy ins. I went bust from $35 quid on my first attempt myself, it aint happening overnight.

I started again with 8 quid and was just recreational, i had a couple of good sessions and got to 20 quid as stated above. I didnt move up, i played a few $1.10 deepstacks and a few $1.10 guaranteed $25 MTT's as well as being very very careful on the cash tables, playing ultra tight. It was hard and very boring at times but once i had 10-15 buy ins at 2p/4p (4NL) cash i never looked back. Most of my BR is from micro stakes cash, but that doesnt mean its for everyone. Whatever you feel most comfortable with.

I have grinded away, still playing the odd $1.10 MTT and $2.20 MTT and still at 4NL until just very recently when i hit $200 quid, this allows me to play 4p/8p (20xbuy ins = $160) and 5p/10p (20xBI=$200). Its not easy, it takes a long time but it can be done, if i lose some of that, i drop back down again until i have the correct amount needed to have another go. You have to be really patient. I even still play the odd freeroll, it all helps and all the time you have to learn. Listen to other players on here and take it on board. Dont be afraid to ask questions, even if they appear stupid.

Dont rush to be moving up in stakes too quickly. Watch channel 865, post your hands in the clinic and just be patient. Ask these guys on here, they are fantastic. Free advice! What more do you want?

Sounds like you do ok at MTT's. Take your 10 quid and play 9x$1.10 MTT's a week. If you have a good result you have the beginning of a bankroll. Read DOHHHHHHH's cash thread again and again until it really clicks and have a dabble at that at 4NL, no bigger! Hopefully, it just keeps ticking over. Remember, once you are up and running, you need at least 20x buy ins in your account. e.g 2.20 MTT's, you'll need at least $40 quid, probably more for an MTT bankroll! Bankroll nits for the win!

Give us a shout if you want any more info. (doubtful, its bored me!)

Good luck mate, it can be done. If i can do it, anyone can!

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

So hang on, even if i was to win 6/10 30p games, i still wouldn't be making any money would i? 6x50p (winnings) would make me break even. So would i need to be winning 7 to make money?
Posted by Pipunch

Play cash matey , play cash xx

Pipunch

Not only are you lot well nice, you're really helpful. Thanks a lot people! Boosted my confidence and given me renewed hope!

pod1

tight range and stay in br .

Pysterman

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

So hang on, even if i was to win 6/10 30p games, i still wouldn't be making any money would i? 6x50p (winnings) would make me break even. So would i need to be winning 7 to make money?
Posted by Pipunch

As some have already said, it's extremely difficult to build a bankroll playing 30p DYMs. Yes, you need to win 60% just to break even. If you do beat over 60% the rewards are tiny.

For example, since I've been on this site (about 21 months) I've played exactly 51 30p DYMs. I have won 62% which me gives an average profit of 0.4p per game. Very slow climbing!

I didn't really make any real money until I started playing £2.25 DYM (you only need a 56.25% win rate to break even at this level). I didn't know about BR management back then, so I was probably slightly out of depth at first, but luckily won often enough to make slow but steady profits. I've played 510 DYMs at £2.25, with a 62% win rate, an average profit of 22.8p per game.

I actually have an 83% win rate at £5.50 DYMs, but since I've only played 6 games I'm not reading much into that! Ironically, I'm sure that most of those games were played on tilt (and definitely beyond my BR means) after 'raising the stakes' to try to recoup losses after a bad night. (Don't do that, by the way!)

However, over the past few months I've turned my attention to NL4 cash and the BR that took me about 19 months to build up playing mostly DYMs has increased by about 50% in the last 2 months.

So, as others have said, if you're a reasonably solid player you should find Cash (started at NL4) a much better way to build your BR than DYM or other small SnGs.

Good luck!

Crunchybob

Hey pippunch.

i am currently in the same process of you which is building a bankroll. in may i built a br of £80 out of £5 in a month...but then i ran bad tilted and blew it on roulette .

so i have £15 and for 2 nights i been playing 50p and £1 dyms. just a tip i would def recommend the ABC of DYMs by JohnConner as its helping me.
just a tip play tight and wait for cards to come to u.
As for Bankroll management stick with what your comfortable at, cos if u move too high in stakes and play 'nervous' poker it can make u make silly mistakes and play badly.

good luck at the tables.

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

Hey pippunch. i am currently in the same process of you which is building a bankroll. in may i built a br of £80 out of £5 in a month...but then i ran bad tilted and blew it on roulette . so i have £15 and for 2 nights i been playing 50p and £1 dyms. just a tip i would def recommend the ABC of DYMs by JohnConner as its helping me. just a tip play tight and wait for cards to come to u. As for Bankroll management stick with what your comfortable at, cos if u move too high in stakes and play 'nervous' poker it can make u make silly mistakes and play badly. good luck at the tables.
Posted by Crunchybob

Luv ure avatar )

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck. : Yeah i understand he was winning, but i felt like an A or J pairing up would be sufficient to win the pot and that it was worth the risk with the amount of chips i had left.  Is it possible to point me in the direction of the micro stakes guide by dohhhhh please someone?
Posted by Pipunch

Well if you really are sure than he has a pocket pair then no it is not worth it. Even if he has 22, you are less likely to win than he is (albeit by a very small margin), you never really wanna call knowing that you're behind, it just wont work long term.


In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck.:

In Response to Re: Building a bankroll with bad luck. : I've been playing small stakes sit n go's, the odd MTT and the odd bit of cash, as well as freerolls. Up to now i've cashed in about 50% of freerolls i've played in, winning 2 of them overall, and my biggest win so far on MTT has been £36. Up to now i've been indisciplined, moving up in stakes after a good run only to find i'll come crashing down to skint after a few bad beats. Time to be more disciplined for me. I think cash games could be a good way to build because i play ultra tight (i think the fact you're betting your actual money instead of chips accounts for this). So have you managed to build up a decent bankroll for yourself this way?
Posted by Pipunch

With cash, you have to think of the amounts of the table as a number of big blinds, so when you buyin for the full amount (as you always should) that's 100BBs and you should always work in big blinds. If you start thinking about it as real money, then when you move up a level or two, you might not be very happy about making a marginal call for £15 but if you think, well it's 50BBs, it can affect your decision.

A well known player on here once commented that sometimes when he lost a £2 pot, he thought to himself 'I could have bought some milk with that'... if you start thinking like that, you'll always be playing with scared money (bad!)

FLASHJONNY

stick at it lad