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help dont know where i went wrong
playing in a 10 seater ds last night 1.5 hrs in, going along OK and played a hand very wrong, but i dont know where, i would get it up on here, but i am computer dumb and dont know how , i can tell you its hand 199597649 7pm ds, if anyone would could give some advice on it would be appreciated
Comments
If you know how to copy and paste, highlight the entire hand, then copy and repaste it here on a new post.
If you dont know how to copy and paste.....
left Click on the very top left of the part you want to copy and whilst holding the click down go to the very bottom right. This should now highlight a different colour. Let go of the left click and click the right click. go to copy.
Then come over here and click on a new comment, then right click again and paste should be available, accept this and your hand should appear.
If you know how to do it I apologise.
Failing that, was anyone else on the table that could post it for us???
If not ask Sky Rich to see if he can access the hand and post it here for us to see.
A shade unlucky here, but......
1) I think a Re-Raise Pre was in order. mmmchips plays quiete a wide range of starting hands, but if you had re-popped it pre, I'd be surprised if he had called.
2) I think most of us give a free card on that Flop, but we must always be mindful that giving free cards increases the risk/reward ratio. Even if mmm called your Flop Re-Raise, when you Pot the Flop, even for a gutterball, he can't call.
Mainly, just unlucky. But a Re-Raise Pre would be my play there, hand over, next case.
Hi pod
Well, what did you hope to achieve when you limped in with JJ? (Called), were you hoping to trap? the flop was not too bad, you hit your J, but when that 7 hit the turn and you were re-raised "all in" should have set the alarm bells ringing, you may have been better trying to protect your hand after the flop, there is no guarantee you wouldnt have been called, but more than likely not, he was on a gutshot draw only. Imo, you should have folded immediately after the all in, you may have been short stacked, but at least you would still have been in it.
If I have a big pair, I never try fancy moves, I push, unless there is a big re-raise before me and I have KK, QQ, JJ or TT I fold.
Hope this helps
The check on the flop was IMO wrong, Yes, we all do it when you have flopped the nuts hoping for someone to catch up, so to speak, unfortunately, someone caught up then overtook.
By checking, you have given the other player unlimited odds of hitting his cards as it has cost him nothing at all. Even if he had a one outer, by giving him the opportunity to have another card, he had a chance.
Just a little unlucky his 4 outer popped in, but like I say, most of us would have checked.(I know I do sometimes, depending on the table, blinds etc)
Sometimes you don't want to frighten your opponent off too easily and sometimes this hits us in the face.
I don't think there is too much wrong with the flat call to the raise as you may have been running into a monster like q's k's or aces. A flat call means you can get out with some dignity if the board is all overcards and you are faced with a massive bet. Like I say, without knowing your opponent that well, I can't really comment on what range he raises with.
I'd rather we created the Big Pot, by Betting pre, & if somone comes with us, so be it, we can re-assess on the flop.
How much do I make it Pre?
Ideally, normally, I Pot it here - that's about 2,000, but your stack size is a bit awkward for that.
So I might just jam all-in. I know that sounds a bit daft, but your Stack size is only just over 20 x BB, so a Pot Bet leaves you with just 8 or 9 x BB. The chance to get my money in first, & pick up that dead money (450 + 450 + 150 + 75 = 1,125) & thus increase my Stack by 30% or so (about 7 Bigs) might be the best option.
I think I'm doing a Bob Marley - I'm jamming.
I liked Hale's Post, though I'd make two points.
Hale said....
"....I don't think there is too much wrong with the flat call to the raise as you may have been running into a monster like q's k's or aces...."
We are early Position here, & you are right, we have no idea what the first Raiser has. Could be a monster, but in probability, it could be anything.
But we DO know that the Caller behind does NOT have a monsta. If he had a Monsta, with a Raise already in, he'd be crazy to smooth it, & thus give odds to 5 or 6 players behind to come in too. so we can be reasonaby sure the guy who called the 450 does not have a monsta.
Also.....
"...A flat call means you can get out with some dignity if the board is all overcards....."
But what if the Flop comes all low, & Villain DOES have AA or KK? We are faced with a really tricky decisio now - Passing J-J on a, say, 9 high Board. Not easy, that.
What an interesting hand this is - it throws up so many tricky decisions. Personally, I don't like tricky decisions, so I make my move first, & either Pot it or jam. But that's just my style in this spot, it may be wrong for others.
I'm definitely betting the flop even though you've flopped the nuts.
Against two players in a raised pot, either they've got a hand and will give you action or they're likely to be fairly loose and might give you action - if they both fold then we've missed an opportunity but I'd take that risk.
Also, as you're last to act then a flop bet can look like a steal in that position so you may get action from a frisky player trying to take it away from you with an underpair to the J.
If they've both got AK and the turn is an A or K, then your flop check obviously starts to look great but the chances of this are pretty slim.
I can remember hands where I've flopped set over set and managed to get very little out of it after trapping on the flop because the board gave an obvious possible straight (or flush) by the river.
In these cases, it's not just whether you're scared of the possible straight (or flush), it's whether your opponent is scared of it and doesn't give you as much action as you would have liked.
There's no hard & fast right & wrong in the game.
Just keep it simple.
It's definitely a game of opinions (and many other things too) - if we all played the same way, it would be a dull game.
In my opinion, the only thing wrong with the play was checking the flop. I would have pushed all-in with the set and hope to win it there and then. Personally, I don't like J's at all.
Pre-Flop, in this case, I think we take the easy road, & Pot it, or Jam.
As yoi say, once we reach the flop, we have to protect against the (what turns out to be imaginery) Flush Draw.
Very ul to walk into a GutterBall that Binked, though.
Honestly the number one difference between good and bad players is aggression. re raise pre because you have the 4th best possible hand and you have no reason to think you dont have the best hand and you dont wanna play a multi way pot. This isnt a tricky hand. Bet flop because you want to extract chips from all draws and weaker pairs. Honerstly people never fold pairs, bet bet bet. Make your opponent make tough decisions, a min raise on the turn isnt a tough decision.
Bad players always try and play big hands as slowly as possible or bet as small as possible because they dont want people to fold. They always end up losing a big pot or winning a tiny one. Dont be a bad player.
He was calling about 1300 to win 8K or getting 6-1.
He had 11 outs to redraw the full house so was 23% even if mmmchips had the straight (and there's no guarantee of that).
He was getting 6/1 on a 3/1 shot - absolutely clear call.
Read that 10 times, implement, & you'll be a 20% better player overnight.
"Make your opponent make tough decisions". That is so good. Instead, we faced the tough decision.
A great Post by Sky Dave, but really, it boils down to this.
".....EDIT: Having seen the hand again, I NOW realise he just flat-called an open raise. I'm keeping my post as-is for advice on how I'd play it if we were UTG though. That and going to Specsavers. Oh, and yes pre-flop I would just jam it as Tikay says. Solid hand and lots of dead money in there too....".
The more I think asbout it, the more I think this is a clear-cut "jam".
I really ought to try & spend some more time in this Poker Strategy Board - there's some great stuff in here.
To the OP - Pod1 was it? - hope you don't think I, or anyone else, is being overly critical. You asked a question, & I think you've had some terrific replies.
There is so much more to hand Analysis than standard, book-based, lines. In this case, the key factors are the Blinds Level, & our Stack. And that dead money in the middle. And we KNOW that the guy who Called the Raise can't have much in that spot, unless he's really bad.
I think I have now made my mind up - it's a jam. It only took me three days to decide.....
Worth bustin out purely for that gem!!!
Keep at it mate, there truely is no right or wrong answer here, had you been a little closer to the button, your decision would be so much easier.