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£22 DEEPIE VERY EARLY STAGES AND FLOPPED A MONSTER - please discuss

phil12ukphil12uk
edited October 2009 in Hold'em Poker Strategy
I have just played this hand in the £22 7:30 deepie.  It was 5 hands in and first level. Battle of the blinds and I flop a full house.  I bet out and Player X dwelled, typed in chat " you dont have an ace" and folded. He later said that he folded JJ.

2 questions....

Did i play it wrong to lead out so early in a deepie with such a monster?

Would you have folded JJ in his position because I know I would have called / raised in his spot.
phil12uk Small blind  10.00 10.00 5120.00
PLAYER XBig blind  20.00 30.00 4930.00
  Your hole cards
  • 8
  • 8
     
makapaka Fold     
LEON1 Fold     
Uzi_lover Fold     
phil12uk Raise  60.00 90.00 5060.00
PLAYER XCall  50.00 140.00 4880.00
Flop
   
  • A
  • A
  • 8
     
phil12uk Bet  70.00 210.00 4990.00
PLAYER XFold     
phil12uk Show
  • 8
  • 8
   
phil12uk Win  210.00  5200.00
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Comments

  • MereNoviceMereNovice
    edited October 2009
    I'm betting in your shoes.
    He's called your raise pre-flop.
    With big pairs, you might well expect him to re-raise pre-flop so you could easily put him on a reasonable ace.
    If he has the ace you get good action and you want to get chips in at the earliest opportunity to make a monster pot. If he outdraws you with a better FH, that's unlucky.


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  • Grimstar30Grimstar30
    edited October 2009
    Seems ok to me. You give a free card u spikes the jack, then its very messy. You were just unlucky he didnt have an ace in his hand.
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  • silentbobsilentbob
    edited October 2009
    Now this is definitely a weak spot in my game - early tourney play. I never know what to do to try and extract maximum value.

    However, in this spot I think I'm check calling the flop & then leading out on the turn. He's called your pre flop raise so I would figure that there's a decent chance he's got an ace & if not he might try and represent?
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  • WildDogWildDog
    edited October 2009
    You know yourself Phil that the chance or him having JJ there is approximate to the chance of sp*rs winning the champions league this season :) As for check or bet i dont know, if he has an ace then getting in an extra bet should yield a fair few more chips by the end of the hand and if he has nothing then the chance of him turning a pair is slim and even if he does hes prob only gonna call you down. Just one of those frustrating times where you have the crown jewels and the other guy has nothing and no incentive to win the 210 chip pot.
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  • scotty77scotty77
    edited October 2009
    Dunno.  Bit of meta game.  Usually if a player had an A they would check it on that flop.  However you bet which to a thinking player means that you are simply trying to convey a standard c-bet when in fact you are huge.

    Betting here is always the best option tho.  You build a pot and if he does have an A it gets super messy turn.

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  • phil12ukphil12uk
    edited October 2009
    What about the 2nd part of my question?  I was amazed he folded JJ as I would have called / raised in his pos.  I know this is still a weakness in my game as its calling for the 2 outer but on AA8 flop i definitely would have found it hard to 'let go' so soon.
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  • BADBOY985BADBOY985
    edited October 2009
    IF HES GOT JJ I THINK HES RERAISING YOU PREFLOP YOU FIRST RAISE IS CALLABLE WITH PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING THAT EARLY.
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  • Sky_DaveSky_Dave
    edited October 2009
    I personally bet this all the time. Build that pot while we're ahead. If he's got a decent Ace he's paying you. If he's got nadda he's not going to give you a bean on that board! 

    If I had JJ in the BB here, I would also have reraised you preflop and probably on it too, just to check if you really did have that Ace. Or full house ;)
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  • BigBlusterBigBluster
    edited October 2009
    I think the size of your flop bet was way out.

    If I hit the underfull I overbet the pot in a big way.  If he's got a big ace you can break him, if he hasn't you're not usually going to get a dime out of him anyway. I'd have bet 400 into that 140 pot with the intention of getting all 5000 of his chips if he's got an ace.

    As for the second part - if he folded JJ in that situation, I'd be surprised. He should have taken a card off for just 70, for if he hit he would get all 5,000 of your chips. Again reinforcing that the 70 bet was a bit off.
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  • labrat64labrat64
    edited October 2009
    I think that after that flop, if he is sure that you got no Ace then why would he not come over the top, even a call is only 70. More likely just trying to protect his blind pre flop. Can't see any case for folding JJ if he typed that in chat box first.
     
    As for you leading out, fine, after his call you'd probably put him on ace rag at least.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited October 2009
    In Response to Re: £22 DEEPIE VERY EARLY STAGES AND FLOPPED A MONSTER - please discuss:
    Dunno.  Bit of meta game.  Usually if a player had an A they would check it on that flop.  However you bet which to a thinking player means that you are simply trying to convey a standard c-bet when in fact you are huge. Betting here is always the best option tho.  You build a pot and if he does have an A it gets super messy turn.
    Posted by scotty77
    THIS!

    Scotty "4-2 man" as I mockingly call him - gets derided now & then for his creative & unconventional game, but I tell you what - he understands - really understands - the game at a deep Level.

    Post of the Week for me.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited October 2009

    Note, by the bye, that Scotty's diagnosis was exactly what Phil12uK - a successful, good, thinking player - did. He flopped a House, OOP, & bet out, thus disguising beautifully his hand.

    THAT was a great play, imo, & it would have whooshed 95% of Players, because they don't think these things through, & analyse them.
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  • BigBlusterBigBluster
    edited October 2009
    I still don't think the 70 bet was big enough.
    I would have been going for all his stack with that hand and the 70 bet gives a hand like JJ (the one the villain claimed) 70/1 implied odds to spike the jack while not giving the 88 the chance to get all 5000 of his chips.

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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited October 2009
    In Response to Re: £22 DEEPIE VERY EARLY STAGES AND FLOPPED A MONSTER - please discuss:
    I still don't think the 70 bet was big enough. I would have been going for all his stack with that hand and the 70 bet gives a hand like JJ (the one the villain claimed) 70/1 implied odds to spike the jack while not giving the 88 the chance to get all 5000 of his chips.
    Posted by BigBluster
    Quite possibly, I would not disagree.

    It's getting that balance right between betting just the right amount to keep your punter, & confuse him with the bet, & over-egging our Bet & losing him.
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