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What would you do? ( hand in a live game)
I play in a local pub poker game every Tuesday, I thought I'd just share this hand from last night, to see what people think.
We each start with 3,500 chips and it was the second hand of the night. Blinds were 25/50 and I was UTG+1 with Aces.
I raised to 200, & it folded around to the SB who called. the BB folded. The SB layer is quite loose. I've seen him make some ridiculous calls, and is quite renowned to overbet. I consider him a bit of a nutter & not a very good player at all and he really can have pretty much anything.
The flop came 4h, 4c, 3s. the SB (who has already lost 300 or 400 on the 1st hand of the night) shoves all in for about 3,000 chips.
Bearing in mind that this was 2nd hand in & for pretty much my whole tourney life, I really did tank for a minute or two. - What would you do..?
I eventually called. He waited for me to reveal my cards, then sheepishly showed 3d, 5d.
the turn was a J & the river was another 4.
He growled stating that he didn't think I could call. I then had a massive starting chip lead (I went on to win!)
Was I being too tight even considering the fold, or should I just snap call always in that situation?
thoughts appreciated.
We each start with 3,500 chips and it was the second hand of the night. Blinds were 25/50 and I was UTG+1 with Aces.
I raised to 200, & it folded around to the SB who called. the BB folded. The SB layer is quite loose. I've seen him make some ridiculous calls, and is quite renowned to overbet. I consider him a bit of a nutter & not a very good player at all and he really can have pretty much anything.
The flop came 4h, 4c, 3s. the SB (who has already lost 300 or 400 on the 1st hand of the night) shoves all in for about 3,000 chips.
Bearing in mind that this was 2nd hand in & for pretty much my whole tourney life, I really did tank for a minute or two. - What would you do..?
I eventually called. He waited for me to reveal my cards, then sheepishly showed 3d, 5d.
the turn was a J & the river was another 4.
He growled stating that he didn't think I could call. I then had a massive starting chip lead (I went on to win!)
Was I being too tight even considering the fold, or should I just snap call always in that situation?
thoughts appreciated.
Comments
with your reads I snap
Not if I was genuinely trying to work out the liklihood that he had a 4, or pocket 3's (which I was more scared of tbh).
I'd seen him play some low pairs right through a major painted board before, so it did genuinely make me think. the possibility of him having me beat wasn't beyond the possibility of reason, as demonstrated by his call pre-flop.
At the end I decided it was unlikely & that he had either and that if I fold to that then I'm never going to be prepared to gamble any hand.
My guess is that he knows that you play tight early on (as you should) and that your early possition raise is either big pocket pair or AK. Agro players like this like to bully people around, especially when they hold low cards and make a pair (bragging rights if they get you to fold a monster - like aces for example).
You have to call but it's never pleasant calling for your tournement life with cards to come in the first few hands. That's probably another reason he did it.
Also how he played a low pair on a painted board is pretty irrelevant here. He might show up with 33, 4x an odd time, but I think you can make the decision you speak of in the last line there very quickly and call
It's all very easy to say, people don't go all in when they flop trips or a boat, but it's for that exact reason that people occasionally do shove in these situations depending on your imagine of them. Imagine he does have 33 or 4x here, you think 'well there's no way he has 33 or 4x' so you call and you lose. That's why people get suspicious when people seem to be slowplaying on potentially dangerous boards, you can't possibly say you should play it THIS way or THAT way 100% of the time because you become too predictable.
He mentioned he had a read that he loves to overbet so that's one thing. He's also very aggro which yes means he's playing a wide range but it also means that he will get paid off more when he does hit.
He turns up drunk, stumbles around. and I have seen him shove with monsters at really early stages while deep stacked. He just doesn't understand the concept of extracting value or slow playing, he's just focused on winning a hand at a time - irrespective of his stack or the stage in the tournament.
Hence my think for a second ( & it was less than 30 seconds.) I was just trying to gauge whether the fold was the right move, in the end I figured that he was just scared of playing post flop and was just trying to end it then & there.
And I tell no lie, - I talked to him about it afterwards and stated that the move smelt of fear which is how I worked out he had 'nothing'
His response was that he wasn't really concentrating and that he thought he had 3-4!
I know he was lying to save face as he looked at his cards twice before his shove, ( I deem it unlikely he misread them twice) but that gives you an indication of his playing syle & knowledge of the game.
Great.
Slowroll
word type: poker slang
In no way were you holding the nuts so it is unfair to accuse you of slowrolling. Take time before making any decision in live poker, you are allowed the time so use it.
Good call
However your story has changed in last post compared to original one. Tanking for one or two minutes on this decision is a lot imo, but as solarcarro says you are entitled to do so. Personally I dont think you have to have the nuts to be slowrolling, whatever the definition is, but from your reads in op this is a fistpump snapcall and if he has you beat move on and be happy with your decision.
also I think shoving with a 4 here wouldnt be that bad a play live
I think its bad to get into the habit of snap acting.
I'd weigh him up for a short while, just to guage his overall comfort level. So that when we do call (which I think we mostly always are), if he flips over the luckbox hand, we can look for the same info in future in less clearcut spots.
But stopping to ponder your tournament life on the 2nd hand isnt a bad thing at all IMO