Is there ANYTHING you can do?

will56

First of all i would like to stress this is not a rant or moan, i just wondered what other peoples opinions were about similar hands!

I was playing a £5 DYM and as we all know these are fairly tight, cagey SNG's! 2nd hand of the match im on the button and pick up K 10 of clubs! UTG calls, one in mid position calls, i call and the blinds call! so we are 5 handed going to flop.  Flop comes Ac 9c 2h.  blinds check, UTG bets 20 into a pot of 100, mid position calls so im getting 6/1 to hit my flush draw.  i call and blinds fold.  turn card is 9d, UTG bets 40 into pot of 160, mid postion folds and i call.  at this point im slightly worried about him holding a9 for the house.  river card is Qc, he checks and i value bet 160 with my flush.  he min raises and there is no way i can pass.  he shows q9 for the full house. 

Is there anyhting you can do about a hand like this, maybe raise on the flop or the turn with a flush draw, although this is a fairly risky play.  with him betting such a small amount each time i assumed i was good. 

Like i said this is not a moan, just wandering what the general feeling is about players who have no concept of bet sizes etc!

Tikay10

Not much!

You should congatulate yourself on only losing about 500 chips with the Nut Flush. Over 60% of that was due to that Value Bet (& subsequent "forced" Call) on the end.

"Value Betting" overall is a negative thing. Everyone says you have to value bet, but I'm not so sure. If you don't Value bet here, your loss in this cooler would be just a few hundred chips - less than 10% of your stack.

But, pretty much, the hand played itself. A cooler, really.

apollo_11

I see this happen all the time and wonder the same thing.
I don't like to raise on flush or strait draws and just have to accept the fact that sometimes the card I want is also the card that someone else wants to improve to beat me.
I would have played the hand the same way as you.

will56

cheers guys, with regards to tikays post, i was so wary of the check raise on the river, but just couldnt bring myself to check it! lol.  never mind we win some we lose some!

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Is there ANYTHING you can do?:

cheers guys, with regards to tikays post, i was so wary of the check raise on the river, but just couldnt bring myself to check it! lol.  never mind we win some we lose some!
Posted by will56

We've all been there & done that!

We KNOW we are losing - probably - so we decide we won't call. Then we click "Call"!

It was not the worst call, if you look at it logically. You were getting about 3/1 (or whatever). How many times out of 4 is he bluffing there, or betting with Trips, or a worse Flush? If it's more than once, your Call is correct, &, over time, that Call will be +EV. You have to Call there, but I'm less sure that you had to value Bet.

Still, it's early in the DYM, so you had time to recover.

The answer to your question remains as was. "No, not really".

BlackFish3

Why would you not value bet the river TK? Hes indicated weakness so good chance he will check the river if checked to so check raise would be unlikely. You can't expect to be beat on the river until he reraised and even then you are still good most of the time.

dav1964

In Response to Re: Is there ANYTHING you can do?:

Why would you not value bet the river TK? Hes indicated weakness so good chance he will check the river if checked to so check raise would be unlikely. You can't expect to be beat on the river until he reraised and even then you are still good most of the time.
Posted by BlackFish3

yeah i totally agree with you BLACKFISH

labrat64

Think you could have raised on the flop to give you better idea as to whether he had a hand or was fishing, but the way you played it you lost the minimum amount you could really so well done.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Is there ANYTHING you can do?:

Why would you not value bet the river TK? Hes indicated weakness so good chance he will check the river if checked to so check raise would be unlikely. You can't expect to be beat on the river until he reraised and even then you are still good most of the time.
Posted by BlackFish3

I'm just very wary of Value Betting in certain spots. When I VB & then the guy shoves on me, I sigh every time! It's like Defending Blinds in the early stages of a Tourney, you have to be daft to do it. More money is lost in Value Betting & defending Blinds than is won, it's a -EV equation in my mind.

That, of course, is out of step with majority opinion, & it might be wrong, too. But I want to survive in poker, because I enjoy the game, & I have no plans to go busto by adopting the modern practice of Value-Betting regardless of the Board.

The first rule of Tournaments is to survive. Everything else follows from that. And I don't need to VB dodgy Boards to survive, I can find easier ways, & softer spots.

I do VB when I feel it's right so to do, but I'm very selective.

I agere, that even in my ultra-cautious & prudent mind, this one is a close Call.

seza0120

all i can say is very wp for only losing that amount the same thing happend to me but i pushed all in silly me have to play more selective next time