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NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise

The_Don90The_Don90
edited October 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Jus started this table so this is my second or third hand i think. As most know im new to NL8 (again) so completely readless.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
madman11 Small blind  £0.04 £0.04 £8.00
The_Don90 Big blind  £0.08 £0.12 £7.88
ryder36 Sit out     
 Your hole cards
  • 10
  • K
   
madman11 Raise  £0.12 £0.24 £7.88
The_Don90 Call  £0.08 £0.32 £7.80
Flop
  
  • 2
  • 8
  • 4
   
The_Don90 Check     
madman11 Bet  £0.16 £0.48 £7.72
The_Don90 Raise  £0.64 £1.12 £7.16
madman11 Call  £0.48 £1.60 £7.24
Turn
  
  • K
   
The_Don90 Bet  £1.20 £2.80 £5.96
madman11 Raise  £2.40 £5.20 £4.84
The_Don90 ????
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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino
    edited October 2011

    no idea what he has readless I flat

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  • splashiessplashies
    edited October 2011
    Hmmm yeh gotta call this on turn...

    Tough decision on river though if he bets and you dont improve.
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  • delaney09delaney09
    edited October 2011
    dont really like the lead out on the turn him flatting the re raise on the flop looks like he could have bottom, middle set maybe even a raggy pair with an over card so he is flatting to see a blank turn maybe another 2,4,8 or his overcard then trying to get all his money in as he has tried... turn i probably check to him let him bet the £1.20 to £1.50 flat it and then re evaluate on the river
     obviously when the turn comes you think your huge there with the Kh FD and top pair but when he flats your raise on flop then min re raises you on turn theres literally no hands that you beat apart from getting there with your flush you have to be thinking 222,444 K2, K4 all probably in his range of hands, id say probably more chance of 2 pairs then sets i guess at this level they just probably bomb the pot with a set on the flop instead of flatting right?

     but just to mention Don i rarely play 6m cash and when i do play cash its mainly HU and have never played 8nl when he just clicks it back first thing going through my head is that i am behind but still have max 9 outs going into the river so i would probably flat turn as opposed to shoving it and hopefully get there on the river cause i would presume river if it is a spade the guy is not really going to slow down anyways
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited October 2011
    He could easily have AK here but with what youve invested already just call and reavaluate on the river , prob gonna be diff here though
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  • pod1pod1
    edited October 2011
    you got to flat it mate. spade would be nice or a cheap river!
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited October 2011
    Your getting good pot odds to flat and give you a chance to improve.

    River if you miss? very awkward. not sure you if you can lead river if you miss, but its weak. I think the river decision would be a very good question.
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:
    Your getting good pot odds to flat and give you a chance to improve. River if you miss? very awkward. not sure you if you can lead river if you miss, but its weak. I think the river decision would be a very good question.
    Posted by DrSharp
    pre fine, flop fine.

    I wouldn't lead out the turn. check call is better for pot control (Your hand isn't that good). As played flat call the turn and re-asses on the river. Jam a blank on the river but if a spade comes you might want to try a small comedy bet. If you jam the spade river you don't get called by just a pair, comedy bet might get jammed on ;-)

    Also why are you playing 3-handed? I find that if we are playing super tight and betting value hands then shorter handed tables just means you pay more blinds.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:
    In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise : pre fine, flop fine. I wouldn't lead out the turn. check call is better for pot control (Your hand isn't that good). As played flat call the turn and re-asses on the river. Jam a blank on the river but if a spade comes you might want to try a small comedy bet. If you jam the spade river you don't get called by just a pair, comedy bet might get jammed on ;-) Also why are you playing 3-handed? I find that if we are playing super tight and betting value hands then shorter handed tables just means you pay more blinds.
    Posted by jugglegeek
    i opened the table. There was a full stack. I come from an mtt background which means im very comfortable short handed. Also allows me to widen me range.

    Also your saying my hand isnt that strong here. Im pretty huge in terms of the board.
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  • Batkin88Batkin88
    edited October 2011
    i would shove but i guess thats the mtt background try and win it two ways
    What was your reason for betting out turn?? To see cheap river or to entice reraise i dont think he is flatting a set here at this level would rather put him on an overpair or A8 (Bad if there both spades)
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  • rancidrancid
    edited October 2011
    prefer c/c on flop -
    can't see how your ahead on the turn -
    call and hope to see a spade -
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:
    i would shove but i guess thats the mtt background try and win it two ways What was your reason for betting out turn?? To see cheap river or to entice reraise i dont think he is flatting a set here at this level would rather put him on an overpair or A8 (Bad if there both spades)
    Posted by Batkin88
    Value
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited October 2011
    Yeah just call turn but not sure why as you're dead unless hit a club and if he has a set are you getting the right odds? If it's 2 pair than you have more outs but still not happy about it overall.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:
    Yeah just call turn but not sure why as you're dead unless hit a club and if he has a set are you getting the right odds? If it's 2 pair than you have more outs but still not happy about it overall.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    what range does our oppo have here in ur opinion mate?
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited October 2011
    Well he's minraised pre could be ATC then half pot bet on flop which is standard cbet size, however he calls your raise so must have something could be spade draw too but unlikely with you having that draw, maybe just a 1 pair hand (that becomes 2pair on turn) or maybe a set slow played IP as he knows you'll bet again and he can get it in on turn. I REALLY can't see it being a like AK/KQ/KJ after calling the flop raise but you never know. The turn minraise IMO is always a fairly big hand and fish love the click back play.

    Overall though like I said I wouldn't be massive happy about flatting turn raise when I know I need to hit flush to 100% sure.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited October 2011
    going to post the results now as i can clearly see ive made a mistake. Ive discussed this with Dohhhh outwith aswell and he rekons ive over valued my hand here.
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    madman11 Small blind  £0.04 £0.04 £8.00
    The_Don90 Big blind  £0.08 £0.12 £7.88
    ryder36 Sit out     
     Your hole cards
    • 10
    • K
    		   
    madman11 Raise  £0.12 £0.24 £7.88
    The_Don90 Call  £0.08 £0.32 £7.80
    Flop
      
    • 2
    • 8
    • 4
    		   
    The_Don90 Check     
    madman11 Bet  £0.16 £0.48 £7.72
    The_Don90 Raise  £0.64 £1.12 £7.16
    madman11 Call  £0.48 £1.60 £7.24
    Turn
      
    • K
    		   
    The_Don90 Bet  £1.20 £2.80 £5.96
    madman11 Raise  £2.40 £5.20 £4.84
    The_Don90 All-in  £5.96 £11.16 £0.00
    madman11 All-in  £4.84 £16.00 £0.00
    madman11 Unmatched bet  £0.08 £15.92 £0.08
    madman11 Show
    • 4
    • K
    		   
    The_Don90 Show
    • 10
    • K
    		   
    River
      
    • 6
    		   
    The_Don90 Win Flush to the King £15.22  £15.22
    However i have one last uestion or all. We take the flatting like and river comes Q of hearts (example) how do we play.
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited October 2011

    flat turn, c/f river unimproved seems fine to me.  

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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:
    flat turn, c/f river unimproved seems fine to me.  
    Posted by grantorino
    ty mate. this was my biggest worry at the time. i guess i wanted to avoid the tough river deisison, and was hoping i was against an overplayed A8 type hand.
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited October 2011
    Nice one for ure notes though , him callin ure flop reraise with 2nd pair on a flushing board
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:
    Nice one for ure notes though , him callin ure flop reraise with 2nd pair on a flushing board
    Posted by debdobs_67
    yea defo. the good thing about nl8 is there not alot of players that are new to me (vast amount play NL4 too) and because only 3-6 tables run art a time my notebook filling up fast
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited October 2011
    I'd put in your notes it was hu, it makes a big difference when someone makes a call like on flop, as does the fact there shouldnt be that many made hands in your range
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited October 2011
    In Response to Re: NL8 overs + KHFD played with aggression turning top pair facing click raise:
    I'd put in your notes it was hu, it makes a big difference when someone makes a call like on flop, as does the fact there shouldnt be that many made hands in your range
    Posted by grantorino
    yea i always keep a little (hu) sign on hu notes mate,
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