What would you do??

Batkin88

Is this the time raising for info makes sense???
Would you raise at any point and for what reason and what would you do on river

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
candyking7	Small blind		30.00	30.00	2767.50
Hammer79	Big blind		60.00	90.00	6650.00
	Your hole cards	A Q
stanley08	Fold
Sleepless	Fold
Batkin88	Raise		180.00	270.00	6130.00
flyer169	Fold
candyking7	Fold
Hammer79	Call		120.00	390.00	6530.00
Flop
		7 J Q
Hammer79	Bet		195.00	585.00	6335.00
Batkin88	Call		195.00	780.00	5935.00
Turn
		2
Hammer79	Bet		360.00	1140.00	5975.00
Batkin88	Call		360.00	1500.00	5575.00
River
		Q
Hammer79	Bet		540.00	2040.00	5435.00
Batkin88

PuppetJack

Call?
even if you're wrong & he's slow played a set you've still got 1000 chips & the blinds are only 30/60.

grantorino

any reads?

Im not raising flop or turn unless Im happy to get it in, against an unknown flatting is fine imo

river I prob raise for value and I dont think I could fold readless if he shoves. Dont see how raising for info makes any sense. With reads raise/folding may be ok, but it requires a good knowledge of his calling/raising ranges when you raise river

step7

I would have reraised the turn brick to force a showdown as their flop lead looks a little low to be protecting an over pair. I don't hate your passive pot controlling line here and would definitely be calling the river as I'm a station. Very curious to what they showed up with, hard to say as you haven't given any background on the villain! I reckon you are ahead most of the time as cheeky missed draws, AJ, KJ, KQ, TT try it on when a 2nd Queen pops on the river. If they have got the monster then shame on them for under betting when you could be calling with trip Q's.

cleaverjim

Id 3 bet after flop without a doubt ,If he hits set on turn you let him hit..

Batkin88

In Response to Re: What would you do??:

Id 3 bet after flop without a doubt ,If he hits set on turn you let him hit..
Posted by cleaverjim

To how much and this is a tournament so by raising there if he already has the set my tournamen life is zilch.

Batkin88

In Response to Re: What would you do??:

any reads? Im not raising flop or turn unless Im happy to get it in, against an unknown flatting is fine imo river I prob raise for value and I dont think I could fold readless if he shoves. Dont see how raising for info makes any sense. With reads raise/folding may be ok, but it requires a good knowledge of his calling/raising ranges when you raise river
Posted by grantorino

Absolutely readless, i dont think raising for info is correct ever tbh just throwing it our there. If i raise river am i only inducing the bluff and completely giving my hand away so only getting called by the same or better?

How do you counter the donk leads?

delaney09

i usually see donk leads as one of a few things

1) a draw say T9 AT KT (doubt he ever has AK here probably re raises pre)
2) a massive hand Pockets 7s maybe even pocket Js or 2p
3) trying to protect a hand and get to see all streets cheap hands like 8s,9s,Ts,6s
4) absolute air just trying to get you to fold

if you think the hands good and hes doing number 3 or 4 then i raise flop to 400-450
bet turn 550-600
725-800 river

reason as to why i would raise flop is i just detest donk bets and usually perceive them as very weak and drawing

way played think you can only flat the river, definitely going to be max value. raising the river you have to think you are 100% good but you then give the oppo. the chance to re pop it then you have absolutely no idea where you are at and will be serving towards the fold. but as you said in your earlier post on the tonight shows thread you just did not know where you were so calling down the streets even the river is perfectly fine, well played.

NH

cleaverjim

In Response to Re: What would you do??:

In Response to Re: What would you do?? : To how much and this is a tournament so by raising there if he already has the set my tournamen life is zilch.
Posted by Batkin88

TPTK in my eyes is good to do a 3/4 3 bet ,If you play AQ i tbh think its a great flop yes any set your losing but imo id shove on this flop ob depending on what sort of torn n structure,Hope you won.

NColley

Raise flop fold if 3 bet.
If flatting flop can't fold turn, I'd be tempted to min raise river.

DOHHHHHHH

Defineyetly raise the river, and hope he shoves. 

rancid

You have not defined his range on flop or turn by raising so...

Understand why you have not raised flop but you have to raise turn me finks

The only hands that will call a raise/shove are J type hands or Q type.

Given his bets he has Q minimum

You have the other Q so it does seem less likely that he has KQ/JQ

On the the bright side by calling you keep hands in that you got beat and got some nice value 

Think you gotta call only better is going to be calling or raising

grantorino

@ncolley why raise/fold flop readless with tptk

@rancid explain what you mean by raising to define his hand and why doing this on flop or turn would be a good idea

NColley

1 pair early doors, flop is not brilliant for our hand, but its ok, I just want to take control of the hand in these situations since I was pfr. Example below, and yes I know I was right. Just seems cheaper to raise flop rather then call/call to see the showdown. Too often I've flatted 3 barrels after being pfr and seen that TPGK/TK is no good. Also know this is multiway but I was folding if it was HU pot too. 
OP asked when to raise for info, and personally its the flop.

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancereggamja17 Small blind  10.00 10.00 1235.00 GEARHEAD Big blind  20.00 30.00 2475.00  Your hole cards 10 A    ninjafez Fold     NColley Raise  80.00 110.00 1800.00 BLOXO Call  80.00 190.00 2460.00 01yakiT Fold     reggamja17 Call  70.00 260.00 1165.00 GEARHEAD Call  60.00 320.00 2415.00 Flop  8 A 6    reggamja17 Check     GEARHEAD Bet  20.00 340.00 2395.00 NColley Raise  290.00 630.00 1510.00 BLOXO Call  290.00 920.00 2170.00 reggamja17 Fold     GEARHEAD Raise  540.00 1460.00 1855.00 NColley Fold     BLOXO Call  270.00 1730.00 1900.00 Turn  2    GEARHEAD Check     BLOXO Check     River  2    GEARHEAD Bet  865.00 2595.00 990.00 BLOXO Call  865.00 3460.00 1035.00 GEARHEAD Show 6 6    BLOXO Muck A 7    GEARHEAD Win Full House, 6s and 2s 3460.00  4450.00

rancid

@ Granny  Your always on my case )

I mean raise flop or turn for value as worse hands will call 

Also by doing this he will get some info as to where he is in the hand, thus defining oppo range.

He got no info come river so hence the situation he finds himself in.

If he has played this to extract value from worse by calling then he should just call river or maybe a cheeky click back )

But the way it's played the only hand thats calling a raise on river that he beats is KQ, which seems very unlikely.

grantorino

In Response to Re: What would you do??:

@ Granny  Your always on my case ) I mean raise flop or turn for value as worse hands will call  Also by doing this he will get some info as to where he is in the hand, thus defining oppo range. He got no info come river so hence the situation he finds himself in. If he has played this to extract value from worse by calling then he should just call river or maybe a cheeky click back ) But the way it's played the only hand thats calling a raise on river that he beats is KQ, which seems very unlikely.
Posted by rancid

lol, need a few more years and a sex change before I can be granny

What info will we have if we raise flop/turn and villain calls? If he 3bets?

Sure, raise for value if you are happy to do so. I'm not sure how raise/folding can be a good plan on any street here though with no reads (I know you havent suggested this)

rancid

rasing to get it in on flop and turn so hey ho if he got 2 pr or set then bye bye me, but if oppo flats then I have more info than just calling down.

I have nothing against the calling down btw, i thinks it's a good line if your not 100% happy with getting it in.
Your keeping worse and bluffs in so -- all good

Would be handy to know how oppo plays there monsters tbh