Another call or fold question for you all

rentisdue

The following hand happened about 20mins ago on a £100nl table.

Oppo was the reason i was at table and can very easily ship it in with t/p weak kicker etc but will also push on flush draws etc.

Both of us playing over 100bbs. me 117 bbs oppo 107bbs and the table is 4 handed with the other 2 players solid regs.

Gonna have to type HH again cos dont know how to post hands.

I raise utg with 4h 5h to £3

Folds around to oppo in bb and he calls 

flop comes down 3h 6h Qs

Oppo leads out for £2 and i raise to £9.88 at which point he ships it all in for a extra £94.18

I know i have a monster draw but just wondering how many players call £94.18 extra to win a pot of £214.62 ?

Considering i am almost dead if up against a flush draw but also taking into consideration that this is a big chance to take oppos stack before the other 2 regs on table get the chance and also the fact i know he would do same with AQ etc.

Anyways the result once again wasnt important to the question but i will tell you what is was to save anyone from wondering.

I tanked for a bit but eventually called.

He showed Qc 3c
I showed 4h 5h

Flop 3h 6h Qs   turn Ks  river 8h   and i won with the flush

So the question is Call or Fold ?

cleaverjim

The easiest call ever.

cleaverjim

If your playing that hand what sort of flop do you want?Imo you must be mad to fold.

jenny_IYY

Def not the easiest call ever even though you have a massive draw because if he has AQ, KQ hearts or any top pair with fl dr your in real bad shape but given you say he does this with alot of other hands i call aswell.

Just because you got a very good flop for your hand though dosnt mean you have to call off a extra 95bigs with only 12 invested like above poster said and i can see why your asking this question.

NH.

GREGHOGG

this is one for the maths experts (i am not one)

If 2 flushing cards is a big part of his range then i guess its a sigh fold.

But if im rolled properly, playing and running well, i click call fast.

DOHHHHHHH

Yeh maths question, Im not very good at them, but I wud call.

btw how do you get there so much, I now understand how you win thousands, I don't need to watch u play

debdobs_67

I always think in these situations you cant poss hope to flop a full house so THIS flop is what you played ure hand in the 1st place to hit with , so its a call every time imo , otherwise there is simply no point in playing hands like this in the first place xx

AMYBR

My worry would be the same as yours here.  I dont want to snap to see he holds a pair and nut/superior heart draw.  Which is what I may expect from a standardish player.

But with your exhisting reads I think I'm happy to snap it off. 

Poker_Fail

Given you say he would do this with bad hands such as TPWK I think it's a call, not the easiest though but you are obviously rolled for it lol

BTW to post HHs you need to be on the forum in Internet Explorer, and copy and paste the HH  (Still from IE)

IDONKCALLU

got to call if your up against aa with your outs u are favourite to win this hand 

rancid

 

I ain’t no maths expert but if you take away the fact that he may have two hearts then it’s a call. At least 52% with OPPO having 2 pr so 2/1 = snap

 

If he has got two hearts then your drawing to 8 outs, 32% so it’s a fold.

 

Lets face it if he got AQh then tough, but you can never ever fold this flop.

Just get your money in as quick as possible thinking your 60% feels nice and cosy.

 

1267

Snap call.

grantorino

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

  I ain’t no maths expert but if you take away the fact that he may have two hearts then it’s a call. At least 52% with OPPO having 2 pr so 2/1 = snap   If he has got two hearts then your drawing to 8 outs, 32% so it’s a fold.   Lets face it if he got AQh then tough, but you can never ever fold this flop. Just get your money in as quick as possible thinking your 60% feels nice and cosy.  
Posted by rancid

We are not getting anywhere near 2/1, we need 44% equity to call

If he has 2hearts we often have 14 outs unless he has Qh, in which case we usually have 8

We are hardly ever as good as 60% unless he has a straight draw, we are less than 50% v 2pair, but we should have just about enough equity v this guy. I think raise folding this hand would suck though, if I think he shoves often here I prefer flatting flop to raising

Also I dont agree we have to go broke if we open pre, that makes no sense to me,any deeper we prob should fold to the flop 3bet

rentisdue

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all : We are not getting anywhere near 2/1, we need 44% equity to call If he has 2hearts we often have 14 outs unless he has Qh, in which case we usually have 8 We are hardly ever as good as 60% unless he has a straight draw, we are less than 50% v 2pair, but we should have just about enough equity v this guy. I think raise folding this hand would suck though, if I think he shoves often here I prefer flatting flop to raising Also I dont agree we have to go broke if we open pre, that makes no sense to me,any deeper we prob should fold to the flop 3bet
Posted by grantorino

Good points mate.

Although my hand looks massive it is not as massive as some replys my suggest taking into account what he could be holding and thats also the reason i tanked before making the call but imo in no way is this a snap call with only £12 invested as some have said.

Thanks for the replys all

cleaverjim

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all : Good points mate. Although my hand looks massive it is not as massive as some replys my suggest taking into account what he could be holding and thats also the reason i tanked before making the call but imo in no way is this a snap call with only £12 invested as some have said. Thanks for the replys all
Posted by rentisdue

TBH WHY PLAY THOSE CARDS WHEN YOU GET THE PERFECT FLOP.IF PLAYING THEM IMO LIKE I SAID YOU HAVE TO CALL OR DONT PLAY THOSE CARDS .

rentisdue

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all : TBH WHY PLAY THOSE CARDS WHEN YOU GET THE PERFECT FLOP.IF PLAYING THEM IMO LIKE I SAID YOU HAVE TO CALL OR DONT PLAY THOSE CARDS .
Posted by cleaverjim

Good flop yes mate but most cash hands you play you can play them through the streets and get a feel for the hand so just because i get a good flop it dosnt mean i have to go broke, after all like what has been said i might be drawing very thin.

cleaverjim

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all : Good flop yes mate but most cash hands you play you can play them through the streets and get a feel for the hand so just because i get a good flop it dosnt mean i have to go broke, after all like what has been said i might be drawing very thin.
Posted by rentisdue

I sort of agree but IMO if i played those cards i would go all the way with it on that flop.GL

TommyD

1)  Click call

2)  Scream 'Hit!'

rentisdue

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

1)  Click call 2)  Scream 'Hit!'
Posted by TommyD

You must have been watching me m8

rancid

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all : We are not getting anywhere near 2/1, we need 44% equity to call If he has 2hearts we often have 14 outs unless he has Qh, in which case we usually have 8 We are hardly ever as good as 60% unless he has a straight draw, we are less than 50% v 2pair, but we should have just about enough equity v this guy. I think raise folding this hand would suck though, if I think he shoves often here I prefer flatting flop to raising Also I dont agree we have to go broke if we open pre, that makes no sense to me,any deeper we prob should fold to the flop 3bet
Posted by grantorino

In my world if all our outs are clean with a SFD we are getting the price to call, right or wrong ?

jimchree24

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all : In my world if all our outs are clean with a SFD we are getting the price to call, right or wrong ?
Posted by rancid

i would call so fast the button would be hot, the odds are so much in your favor

Fluxfoxy32

Flopping a straight flush draw leaves you 60% to hit either a straight a flush or indeed a straight flush. Snap call. Especially against a guy as aggro as this.

Lambert180

I see your predicament. Very interesting question Rent...

People have mentioned that he may have AQh etc, surely AQh is about the perfect hand you could have for this flop and I'd imagine he knows you're a decent player so surely he's massively losing value re-shoving that much when really what can you call with (other than 4h 5h).

I think it's just about a call.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

Flopping a straight flush draw leaves you 60% to hit either a straight a flush or indeed a straight flush. Snap call. Especially against a guy as aggro as this.
Posted by Fluxfoxy32

Surely you're equity would depend upon whether it's an open ended straight flush draw or a gutshot one?

Fluxfoxy32

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all : Surely you're equity would depend upon whether it's an open ended straight flush draw or a gutshot one?
Posted by Lambert180

It does, flopping an open ender is 60%. Youll have 4 cards to hit either side of the straight (8) and then theres approx (13-4-2=7) 7 flush cards for you to hit which is 15 outs in total. 15x2x2=60.

If its an inside straight flush draw then you still have the 7 flush cards to hit but youll only have 4 cards to hit for a straight which is 11 total outs. 11x2x2=44%

Batkin88

I clicked call on the old voting system but really we should probably fold here. You could only have 2 outs and that would explain his move to do thi with a big draw.
As per reads i thinks it's more of a reason to fold as your taking that money eventually so wait for a better spot.

Fluxfoxy32

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

I clicked call on the old voting system but really we should probably fold here. You could only have 2 outs and that would explain his move to do thi with a big draw. As per reads i thinks it's more of a reason to fold as your taking that money eventually so wait for a better spot.
Posted by Batkin88

He has loooooooads of outs. How could he only have two outs ???

grantorino

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all : i would call so fast the button would be hot, the odds are so much in your favor
Posted by jimchree24

Really? How much are they in our favour?

I agree its a call, its basically a flip though and we only need 44% equity so get it in, but its not a massively profitable spot

grantorino

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all:

In Response to Re: Another call or fold question for you all : It does, flopping an open ender is 60%. Youll have 4 cards to hit either side of the straight (8) and then theres approx (13-4-2=7) 7 flush cards for you to hit which is 15 outs in total. 15x2x2=60. If its an inside straight flush draw then you still have the 7 flush cards to hit but youll only have 4 cards to hit for a straight which is 11 total outs. 11x2x2=44%
Posted by Fluxfoxy32

Im pretty sure we are not 60% to hit (rule of 4 not good for that many outs), also we dont always win when we hit