C-bet bluffing at NL4/8

Pysterman

If I raise pre-flop and then miss the flop completely, I will often c-bet the flop if the conditions are right (especially if it checked to me in a late position). I know this is technically bluffing and that general advice is to avoid bluffing at this level, but I do find it a successful way of taking down a lot of pots against the right opponents.

My question is...

To what degree (at NL4/8) should I be firing again on the turn / river if I am called?

Example...

I have AK on the button, raise pre and get one caller.

Flop comes Q74 rainbow.

Opponent checks, so I c-bet as I am only against one opponent with a dry board and with 2 overcards as possible outs if I am called. Opponent calls.

Turn is a 9.

Opponent checks again.

What now? Do I think...

a) He called my first bet so there is a good chance he has hit at least something and at this level players tend not to fold too often after already committing a fair bit to the pot. So I'll just give up, check and hope to hit an A or K on the river.

or

b) If I check now it will be obvious that I had high cards or a low pocket pair, missed the flop and was trying to steal, so my opponent is bound to lead out on the river and unless I get lucky I'll have to fold, even though my opponent may have nothing but A high.

I understand that there will be some situations where giving up is correct and others where firing multiple barrels may take down the pot without the need for showdown value, but at this level what do think is the percentage play? And whichever it is, would you aim to do it every time (in readless situations at least), or would you still mix it up?

I ask this as I hate not firing a second barrel on the turn (unless I am trapping) as I feel it just turns my hand face up, but I also understand that giving up is often the correct play.

DOHHHHHHH

Good cbet on the flop, nice board to continue.

Turn, check behind, try to hit. 

Don't worry about the whole "he thinks that I think that he thinks" bs @ nl4.

Play ur cards and the board

rancid

Ask yourself what does oppo check/call flop with –

Place that range against the board and play from there –

 Don’t c-bet stations unless you have a hand –

 I would in the main advise against triple barreling at this level, because if they called turn then they calling river unless you have them bang on a draw – be aware make you turn bet chunky, don’t do it weak

 Overall there is little reason to keep bluffing at this level, c bet flop = fine – bluffing turn can become a bit leaky because overall they will just call you down even with top pair no kicker.

DOHHHHHHH

If u just set a rule to never ever do it, then u can't make any mistakes.

Never double barrell out of position unless u'r a 1/2 tabler who has reliable reads. 

Don't do it, and u can't do it wrong.

Simple-z!

waynec

If your going to bluff/semi bluff the flop make sure you play it the same as you would if you hit and the above advise by Doh and Rancid imo is spot on!

rancid

In Response to Re: C-bet bluffing at NL4/8:

If u just set a rule to never ever do it, then u can't make any mistakes. Never double barrell out of position unless u'r a 1/2 tabler who has reliable reads.  Don't do it, and u can't do it wrong. Simple-z!
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I would say never c-bet OOP at all at this level unless you have a hand.

So many stations and you just end up in horrible spots that will you find impossible to play out of.

walesboy

c betting at nl4 does work sometimes even if you have nothing. depends on the image you've built up or what has happened a few hands ago that went to showdown.
i wouldn't continue on the turn though if you've still got nothing, just check back because they could have bottom pair easily and they will just stay in with that.

Pysterman

In Response to Re: C-bet bluffing at NL4/8:

If your going to bluff/semi bluff the flop make sure you play it the same as you would if you hit and the above advise by Doh and Rancid imo is spot on!
Posted by waynec

This is the problem I have.

If I have hit a decent hand (say top pair, top kicker) on a dry board then I will probably bet all 3 streets for value at NL4/8 if I am constantly being called and checked to (will slow down if I am re-raised or the board dampens).

But the advice here seems to be that most of the time I should not be firing 2nd and 3rd barrels at this level if I have missed, in which case this is not playing the same way as if I had hit.

grantorino

if you bet that board hu you are balancing more than anything imo as you have best hand loads

In general at 4NL I'd check back turn, at higher levels I would very rarely fire once on that board and give up

rancid

Your just not balancing your range at this level, they don't pay any attention to it and frankly they only looking at there own cards. Fair enough if your playing v a REG then you can bluff as they will respect it.
Bad players don't fold - simples

debdobs_67

Imo its all about having lots of notes on ure oppos , if you have this then you can easily outplay these players as you have fairly gd knowledge of said players calling ranges.

If its against unknowns its prob not a gd idea to double barrel a bluff.