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Did I play this right or should I have folded pre flop
Just would like some advice here.
After the hand concluded, I received a large amount of abuse from the player I knocked out. I asked him why and he said for the weak play. Personally, I thought it was a strong play. I was the chip leader, played quite tight all game but was in the position to bully the small stack next to me. I told him this and another player agreed, but the losing player insisted it was poor play to bully with such weak cards and continued with the abuse. I am not normally in a lucky enough position to be able to pick on a weak stack and the blinds alone were worth stealing.
At this point in the game, I had approx twice the chips of the second place guy.
Any thoughts guys?
After the hand concluded, I received a large amount of abuse from the player I knocked out. I asked him why and he said for the weak play. Personally, I thought it was a strong play. I was the chip leader, played quite tight all game but was in the position to bully the small stack next to me. I told him this and another player agreed, but the losing player insisted it was poor play to bully with such weak cards and continued with the abuse. I am not normally in a lucky enough position to be able to pick on a weak stack and the blinds alone were worth stealing.
At this point in the game, I had approx twice the chips of the second place guy.
Any thoughts guys?
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Chhas | Small blind | 150.00 | 150.00 | 4150.00 | |
| opponent | Big blind | 300.00 | 450.00 | 980.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| utg | Fold | ||||
| utg+1 | Fold | ||||
| button | Fold | ||||
| Chhas | All-in | 4150.00 | 4600.00 | 0.00 | |
| opponent | All-in | 980.00 | 5580.00 | 0.00 | |
| Chhas | Unmatched bet | 3020.00 | 2560.00 | 3020.00 | |
| Chhas | Show |
| |||
| Opponent | Show |
| |||
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| Chhas | Win | Two Pairs, 5s and 4s | 2560.00 | 5580.00 | |
Comments
I don't see an awful lot wrong with your move here.
The other player had about 25% of his chips invested in the big blind and as such, you could not really afford for him to get those back without a fight. Adding your SB to the mix and he would have about 1500 chips by getting a walk.
This would undoubtably put him back in the game. A minimum reraise may have done the trick however, but as he called an all in, then doubtless a min raise would have seen him pushing back, thus putting the question back to you.
No doubt 7 4 was not the optimal hand to be pushing with here, but basically, you played the hand you had been dealt. It is far harder to call an all in than to make one and his call was pretty weak as he would have been behind to king high.
I have no doubts too that you purely played this way to steal his blind, and once he called you knew your hand was behind, but having said that, even if you lost the hand, you would have remained chip leader and as it turned out, you had 2 live cards so was not that much of a dog.
Yes to be taken out by 4 7 is frustrating, but at the end of the day, a fold by your opponent would have been the best move and he could have pushed himself in a better spot.
If his abuse was as severe as you also comment, a quick call to C.S. may be in order.
The question of the abuseis a different matter all together. This is not up for debate, it should not happen end of story. We have all taken bad beats or got knocked out by people making bad calls. As much as this hurts there is no reason to resort to that level of rudeness. If the abuse was bad i would suggest reporting it, but make a note of the guys name for future reference because he would probably be very liable to making very emotional decisions. Emotions are the worst thing for any poker player because it is a game of odds and reads, not feelings.
In this situation, I would limp and fold to a shove. If I got to see a flop (most of the time I reckon), I'd shove if any 4 or 7 flopped or fold to a bet if neither hit. This shouldn't work in theory but it does in practice, because the big blind will not shove to your limp on the majority of occasions.
If his stack had 500 left, then you have to look him up and that's the end of it. If he had 2,000 left then you fold, end of story. But shoving when he has 1,000 means you're basically giving him your chips to double him up - you're doing exactly what he wants and he shouldn't be complaining about it!
This is simply one of those occasions when aggressive power poker should be supplanted by a little subtlety.
However, the problem lies with the fact a lot of players will call with much a larger range than this, and this may make the move unprofitible.
I definately don't see limping as an option here, for me, it would be shove or fold. However, not seeing the dynamics of the game, I couldn't let you know which one that would be. Although (truthfully) it would probably be fold and wait for a better spot, you have the chips and with the blinds at 150/300, something was going to give soon.
It depends spmetimes on the stakes, at 30p expect a call with pretty much anything. At £55.00 i'm sure you would get the move through a lot easier.
I still think that there was no way you wanted to see a flop and the best way to do that is to get your opponent to fold first.
And although suited, I think his cards were too weak to call an all in with and by folding, he still nearly had 1000 chips which still would give him fold equity should he shove later against any of the other 3 stacks, bearing in mind they too had only just over their starting stacks of 2000.
23o is 34% against AK and there is no reason to think that the villain has anything as powerful as AK. QJ is easily good enough for the call (despite the maths, I'd fold the 23o and shove with any kind of a hand before the next big blind).
But still the basic point is if you think you can get the raise through then do it with any 2 cards regatrdless. If you think he will call any raise then tighten your raising range to give yourself the best chance of winning.To make this decision you need to get a pretty good read on the player in question. This is a thing that virtually all players, myself included, are not as good as they should be at.
One last point, a lifetime of poker is about making the correct decisions over and over again. Results of individual hands are not relevant. The phrase "getting your money in good" is very relevant. So enjoy yourself out there and keep making good decisions. Good luck
If he had live cards but was up against any king or ace then it's 40/60. (again ish)
Either of these odds would not be getting me to put my tournament life at stake unless absolutely necessary. The small stack still did have room to push later and even if he had to push with weaker cards then that is surely better than calling.
if being 38%, by calling, yes to win the pot, he has got the odds, however as this is a stt, it would mean that 62% of the time he would be crashing out and as such, not cash. If you end up out of the cash in 62% of games, ultimately, you are not going to be in profit.
Those odds are perfect for cash play but don't really carry over into stt's.
Just to give you a little more background, it was a DYM game for £3.00. I always play ultra tight in these and up to this point had only played 3 hands and not tried to steal a blind. I got very lucky and doubled through quite early with quads beating a fh. (pocket queens against pocket 8's)
Even though my stack was huge in comparison to the other players, I had not used it to bully as I was waiting for the right spot.
Chips had been going backwards and forwards and 2 or 3 times bb raises were not getting any respect. The shortie had just doubled up an opponent by pushing all in with ace king on the river, although he had completly missed. He had played virtually every hand and called to the river most of them.
i had a feeling a flat call would see me being bullied by him and i did not want him to re raise any move i made.(he had also done this a lot) I didn't like the idea of folding as although I was comfortable, i didnt want him to get 'free chips' and this was the only hand up to yet that had not been multiway. A min raise would be the same as putting him all in as it would have commited over half his stack.
If he had absolute rubbish, i'm sure this was the only way to get a fold. As it was he had something.
Yes, the abuse I recived was very bad, you know the sort of stuff you have to space out so it can be read. He also said I must lose a fortune, but to date, I am running on my original small deposit, have never reloaded since getting here.
150 chips would not have been the end of the world to you, and he still would have been the short stack.
But by the same token, if your play had been ultra tight, then surely he must have put you on at least some sort of hand?
The hand worked out well this time and as you were only a 40/60 dog, his abuse was still unfounded. Had he done this to you, doubtless he would just be laughing instead of posting the hand here for full scrutiny.
When it comes down to the bubble in these sit 'n go's, the other players do tend to leave it to the BB to bully the short stack. In you position, I would raise at least enough to put him all in and if he calls, the chances are you still have two live cards, which you did and you got lucky, as most big stacks teand to do.
The abuse was uncalled for and should be reported.
Thanks Apollo.
I still think the move was right and the cards were irrelevant. I wanted to put pressure on the other stacks to maintain my lead.
Yes, I got lucky but I feel, in truth. he shouldn't have called.