Poker and the taxman - serious question

BigBluster

Does anyone know whether online poker winnings should be declared as income for tax purposes?I've heard of pro players being bankrupted for not declaring their income. Strangely, they're not allowed to offset losses against winnings, all winnings are taxable.Is online play exempt from this?
Disclaimer: If the taxman is reading this, I have never won a hand. Not one. Ever. In fact, you probably owe me a rebate of some sort.

Hale72

I always was under the impression all gambling winnings are tax free in this country.(for an amatuer, pro's I have no idea)

This includes horses, dogs, casino's etc.

Otherwise William Hill would be in a lot of trouble.

But shush, don't give the taxman any idea's

Grimstar30

Would be impossible to keep track of all figures, i.e. on cash tables. Therefore imo poker players will never have to pay tax on winnings in this country.

BigBluster

In Response to Re: Poker and the taxman - serious question:

Would be impossible to keep track of all figures, i.e. on cash tables. Therefore imo poker players will never have to pay tax on winnings in this country.
Posted by Grimstar30

If this is the case, then I'm working 70 hours a week to send their kids to school, pay for their health checks, ensure that their air is clean, police their streets.......not sure I'm happy about this.

MereNovice

I'm pretty sure that ALL poker winnings in this country are tax free.
It's still classified as gambling after a famous court case a year or so ago about a "gaming" room in London.
It would be simple to determine winnings in online poker - all poker sites obviously keep records of this.
Poker winnings are taxable in the US, I think.

MereNovice

The case I mentioned was lost by the Gutshot Club in London.
They wanted poker to be classified as a game of skill (predominantly) in order that they would not need to retain a gambling licence for their club.

WildDog

It depends upon where each player resides thats why loads of poker players come and live in the UK to avoid tax on their winnings. If im not mistaken Eastgate got taxed a huge amount from his WSOP main event win by the Russian tax system, like 50/60% if my memory is correct and now he lives here. Kinda like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted lol but hey he will probably win a heap more.

JAMIEP

We don't have to worry about tax the yanks and a few other nations have to pay it though.I read eastgate lived in our country before the main event last year to avoid paying tax smart man.

loonytoons

In Response to Re: Poker and the taxman - serious question:

The case I mentioned was lost by the Gutshot Club in London. They wanted poker to be classified as a game of skill (predominantly) in order that they would not need to retain a gambling licence for their club.
Posted by MereNovice

Your right and the judge decided that it was a game of luck ( who says judges are daft lol)

Beest

In Response to Re: Poker and the taxman - serious question:

We don't have to worry about tax the yanks and a few other nations have to pay it though.I read eastgate lived in our country before the main event last year to avoid paying tax smart man.
Posted by JAMIEP

Smart or over-confident?

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: Poker and the taxman - serious question:

We don't have to worry about tax the yanks and a few other nations have to pay it though.I read eastgate lived in our country before the main event last year to avoid paying tax smart man.
Posted by JAMIEP

i totally disagree jamie,we absolutely do have to worry,this government have brought in hundreds of stealth taxes over the ten years.
i hasread that they are already looking into taxing poker winnings in some way.it would be easy to tax through a sharkscope type programme...

cheers dave...

FlashFlush

Think I would give up poker if we had to. Think of cash games, you have to pay 'Tax' to the poker room/site every hand ur in and to then payout some of the profit you get to the taxman... whats the point?

Kiwini4u

Whats TAX??

scotty77

The UK wouldn't introduce a tax system, as we have a gambling culture with betting shops on every high street.  It would mean everyone who has place a £10 bet would be able to claim it back.

And if it classed Poker as a skill game to try and get it taxable, then what about people who place sports bets for a living?

If there was a workable way to introduce a tax then the government would have found a way a long time ago.

And a lot or professional poker players will have other business interests where they pay tax on, while also spending their more than average income on goods and services in the country too.  And of course the poker sites/rooms get taxed on the rake that the players generate too, so to the poster who said they are getting a free ride is very much mistaken.

diablo_pez

In Response to Re: Poker and the taxman - serious question:

The UK wouldn't introduce a tax system, as we have a gambling culture with betting shops on every high street.  It would mean everyone who has place a £10 bet would be able to claim it back. And if it classed Poker as a skill game to try and get it taxable, then what about people who place sports bets for a living? If there was a workable way to introduce a tax then the government would have found a way a long time ago. And a lot or professional poker players will have other business interests where they pay tax on, while also spending their more than average income on goods and services in the country too.  And of course the poker sites/rooms get taxed on the rake that the players generate too, so to the poster who said they are getting a free ride is very much mistaken.
Posted by scotty77

that's the key point, the net effect would be -ve as their are more losers than winners

unknown_username

the yanks i think banned online poker over the same argument i think.... couldn't decide how much 2 take in taxes lol

unknown_username

im self employed tho any1 no a dodgy accountant????

DeuceAK_47

I was always told that they cant tax us for winnings on poker because the winnings on the lottrery is not taxed.

apollo_11

In Response to Poker and the taxman - serious question:

If the taxman is reading this, I have never won a hand. Not one. Ever. In fact, you probably owe me a rebate of some sort.
Posted by BigBluster

I am with you on this one. The taxman must owe me a fortune.

MereNovice

In Response to Re: Poker and the taxman - serious question:

I was always told that they cant tax us for winnings on poker because the winnings on the lottrery is not taxed.
Posted by DeuceAK-47

That's because playing the lottery is gambling.
The issue is whether poker is considered gambling.
Currently, thankfully, it is officially classed as gambling.

zxghostxz

it must be the same as winnin a bet on the horses. you dont pay tax on the horses why shoud u pay tax on the poker. isent the  rake/ entrance fee  taxin enough. lol

nirvana29

surely the organisations behind the gaming, like sky, ladbrokes, bet365 etc should be taking care on the tax issues, and dude, come on, ssshhhhhhhhh!

NICON

There was a law on Gambling where you had to pay tax and this was abolished about 10 years ago. You could place a bet and decide if you wanted to pay tax on your bet or on your winnings i think?. Poker is a game of chance by classification thus the law that a card room actually have to have a Casino Licence (the most ridiculous law i've ever heard of considering no player actually plays against the house). This law in my opinion is actually holding back live grass roots poker as if no casino licence was required you would see an upshot of card rooms all around the country and a new infulx of people with the poker bug into the card playing community.

Some pro's may be required to pay tax as they are sponsered (Which may be calssed as employed) by sites who pay their buy-ins and pay them for public appearances, image rights etc. If these payments are classified as an earning by the inland revenue (and i can't see why they wouldn't be when things such as your company car go toward your tax allowance / payments) then they may be taxable and considering the monetary value of these things it would not be hard to run up a tax bill capable of bankrupting you if you happened not to declare them lol

I'm no tax expert (or poker pro for that matter) but I don't think the government are planning on re-introducing gambling tax as they are trying to make the UK a gambling friendly country so they can earn their tax from the gamblimg companies. I'm also caught between a rock and a hard place on the classification of poker as a game of chance, i think most of us would dissagree that poker is a game of chance in the same way that roulette or craps is but consider this..........

If it's not a game of chance then it's a game of skill................... if it's a game of skill then winnings are taxable

JAMIEP

I really believe we will be ok for a long time in this country.I also read on another poker forum that players like durrr who win millions online and lose millions can claim back losses i don't know how it's done over there must be hard esp when you consider cash games etc.

chrisbhoy

mickyblue, i'm an accountan, fr exra cash i can be dodgy too!
just remember pensions are there to put all your money in to keep the bg boys away from i lol

NICON

In Response to Re: Poker and the taxman - serious question:

mickyblue, i'm an accountan, fr exra cash i can be dodgy too! just remember pensions are there to put all your money in to keep the bg boys away from i lol
Posted by chrisbhoy

As an accountant Chris would it be right that a pro may have their buy-ins and appearance fees etc as a taxable income if they are coming from a site that sponsers them or is sponsership non-taxable?

MereNovice

In Response to Re: Poker and the taxman - serious question:

In Response to Re: Poker and the taxman - serious question : As an accountant Chris would it be right that a pro may have their buy-ins and appearance fees etc as a taxable income if they are coming from a site that sponsers them or is sponsership non-taxable?
Posted by NICON

I'd be interested to know this too.
If it is the case that it is taxable, how does this affect Badbeat (and other sites) "traders" who are staked to play and share the profits? They are technically not gambling - not with their own money, anyway.

chrisbhoy

sorry people I am a management accountant not a finance accountant therefor any answer I give would be a guess.( I dont deal with the tax side of companies) But Sponsorship deals I would say are taxable income. In UK income from gamblin is not taxable as previously pointed out.
Ask me about bugets and forcasts and we'd be here all day with my answers lol

paparon

if your thinking about this bluster then you must be doing allright at the tables