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I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up!

ZedsDeadBaZedsDeadBa
edited November 2011 in The Poker Clinic
I've got a habit of checking a made hand in the hope of extracting more money by disguising myself.

However the number of times said policy has allowed my opponent to overtake has now made me think this is a foolish tactic.

If this is indeed so, should I just be trying to get it all-in when I hit and forget about all the clever fannying about trying to extract better value?

In the following situation would a swivel-eyed nuckle dragging shove on the turn be a smarter move?

PS Apologies if all you can see is a load text.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
ZedsDeadBa Small blind £0.02 £0.02 £2.02
Slimpick77 Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £3.40
 Your hole cards
  • Q
  • A
   
lhmopttmop Call  £0.04 £0.10 £3.76
saiman78 Fold     
leech17824 Call  £0.04 £0.14 £1.02
ZedsDeadBa Raise  £0.18 £0.32 £1.84
Slimpick77 Fold     
lhmopttmop Call  £0.16 £0.48 £3.60
leech17824 Call  £0.16 £0.64 £0.86
Flop
  
  • K
  • 2
  • 10
   
ZedsDeadBa Check     
lhmopttmop Bet  £0.10 £0.74 £3.50
leech17824 Call  £0.10 £0.84 £0.76
ZedsDeadBa Call  £0.10 £0.94 £1.74
Turn
  
  • J
   
ZedsDeadBa Check     
lhmopttmop Check     
leech17824 Check     
River
  
  • K
   
ZedsDeadBa Bet  £0.94 £1.88 £0.80
lhmopttmop Raise  £1.88 £3.76 £1.62
leech17824 All-in  £0.76 £4.52 £0.00
ZedsDeadBa All-in  £0.80 £5.32 £0.00
lhmopttmop Unmatched bet  £0.14 £5.18 £1.76
ZedsDeadBa Show
  • Q
  • A
   
lhmopttmop Show
  • 2
  • 2
   
leech17824 Show
  • 4
  • K
   
lhmopttmop Win Full House, 2s and Kings £4.79  £6.55
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Comments

  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited November 2011
    Just seen it better on another thread.

    Firstly sit with full buy in - £4.

    Raise more pre, 18p here so at least 24p.

    Flop sucks but just fold, you only have 4 proper outs, Ace could be live but it could give other two pair.

    Turn you hit miracle so now start betting BIG, DO NOT under any cirmumstance check so here pot is 94p bet at least 80p and get it in if raised obvz.

    As played river is fine but BET DAT TURN YA HERE !
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited November 2011
    allowing oppos to catch up???

    we never bet when ahead issue solved.

    also i doupt a set is folding
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  • ZedsDeadBaZedsDeadBa
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up!:
    Just seen it better on another thread. Firstly sit with full buy in - £4. Raise more pre, 18p here so at least 24p. Flop sucks but just fold, you only have 4 proper outs, Ace could be live but it could give other two pair. Turn you hit miracle so now start betting BIG, DO NOT under any cirmumstance check so here pot is 94p bet at least 80p and get it in if raised obvz. As played river is fine but BET DAT TURN YA HERE !
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Hi Dude, I respect you and all that, but there's NO WAY I'm folding the flop for 10p!!

    Secondly, after hitting my jack would an overbet, say pot and a half, be ok?
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  • ZedsDeadBaZedsDeadBa
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up!:
    allowing oppos to catch up??? we never bet when ahead issue solved. also i doupt a set is folding
    Posted by The_Don90
    We never bet when ahead????????? WTF DOES THAT MEAN?????
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited November 2011
    Just don't even consider ever slowplaying at nl4 ever ever ever

    If you think of it as as big a mistake as folding AA pre flop (it is that bad), then you wont ever have any problems with it.


    There's only so many times ppl can say that the key to nl4 is to make big hands and bet them big.

    It rly is THAT easy.
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  • ZedsDeadBaZedsDeadBa
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up!:
    Just don't even consider ever slowplaying at nl4 ever ever ever If you think of it as as big a mistake as folding AA pre flop (it is that bad), then you wont ever have any problems with it. There's only so many times ppl can say that the key to nl4 is to make big hands and bet them big. It rly is THAT easy.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Hi dohhhhh, I do get it, I rly RLY do!

    But for some reason I cant help but start to think, then it all goes to hell in a handcart.

    I possibly need some therapy:o)




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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited November 2011
    One of the problems ppl find with nl4......is that people don't fold hands....

    (This is only a problem because their strategy is wrong^^^^^)

    So when we have good hands, we can use the above theory to our advantage.....

    We have to put 2 and 2 together and play the percentages....

    99% of our bets @ nl4 are for value (we want people to call us because we believe we have the best hand).

    So when we do anything other than bet, we are risking losing value. Of course sometimes people will bet for us when we check, but I think players are more likely to call at these levels than bet. Of course the other advantage of betting ourselves, is we dictate the pot size!

    We can't be afraid of players folding when we hve a monster. They just don't fold very often do they! If they did, we would have to employ a totally different (tougher) strategy in order to beat the games.

    Post it note, big letters, on ur laptop - BIG HAND = BIG BET !

    Not having a go man, just trying to ram home the message. (and put off playing myself ;)
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  • rancidrancid
    edited November 2011
    Why check turn when you have every indication that oppo's have something from previous action
    Not like you have just flopped trips on a 993r flop



    bet for value, 2 prs/sets/idiot end str/TP's/draws - all going to pay you off
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up!:
    In Response to Re: I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up! : We never bet when ahead????????? WTF DOES THAT MEAN?????
    Posted by ZedsDeadBa
    we're behind pre, we've bet (22 beats AQ pre)

    We're behind on the flop we bet (222 beats A high)

    we're ahead on turn, we dont bet (Straight beats 222)

    We're behind on river, we bet (FH beats straight)


    Therefore we only bet when we where behind. Logic of poker is to get as many chips in the middle while ahead as possible. Not the other way around. :)
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up!:
    In Response to Re: I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up! : we're behind pre, we've bet (22 beats AQ pre) We're behind on the flop we bet (222 beats A high) we're ahead on turn, we dont bet (Straight beats 222) We're behind on river, we bet (FH beats straight) Therefore we only bet when we where behind. Logic of poker is to get as many chips in the middle while ahead as possible. Not the other way around. :)
    Posted by The_Don90
    So he should limp behind with AQ, or should he fold it?

    He didnt bet flop, he called getting ~8/1 with an overcard and a gutshot

    So he should c/f river with a straight

    Think about what you are saying Don. Argueing he should bet turn is fine, but dont make leaps of logic that are nonsensical. Its a game of imperfect information

    EDIT: Sorry Don, just noticed you were answering a specific question. Obv he didnt bet when he was ahead, but that post makes it look like you think betting pre and on river is bad
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited November 2011
    In Response to Re: I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up!:
    In Response to Re: I keep allowing my oppo's to catch up! : So he should limp behind with AQ, or should he fold it? He didnt bet flop, he called getting ~8/1 with an overcard and a gutshot So he should c/f river with a straight Think about what you are saying Don. Argueing he should bet turn is fine, but dont make leaps of logic that are nonsensical. Its a game of imperfect information EDIT: Sorry Don, just noticed you were answering a specific question. Obv he didnt bet when he was ahead, but that post makes it look like you think betting pre and on river is bad
    Posted by grantorino
    nah we have to go broke imo on river. However with odds + implied i think flop is debatable in both corners. Ive called and folded in this situation and im not sure which is correct.

    IMO Turn is a must bet.
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek
    edited November 2011
    DOHHHHHHH has it correct. At NL4 you have no fold equity so we shouldn't be worry about scaring players off. Standard raise pre should be 20p plus another 4p for each limper at least. Secondly sit in with a full buy-in behind. If you've just lost a big hand then that's find but otherwise you want to start the hand with £4.

    Calling the flop is fine because you are 8:1 pot odds but you are shutting down if the turn is not a jack. Once it is a jack then you have to bet. This is why you called the bet on the flop right? Bet £1 here. Chances are your opponent had a pair on the flop, If it's a king they will call any bet, if they had KJ they have made two pair they will not fold ever.

    Then you are pot committed by the river anyway and who cares if someone catches up? they shouldn't have called on the turn. The way you've played it you can't be upset because you have let him fill up for free
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