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Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.

sinozsinoz
edited December 2011 in The Poker Clinic
RICEONE Small blind  100.00 100.00 8920.00
sinoz Big blind  200.00 300.00 5165.00
 Your hole cards
  • Q
  • K
   
fishyriver Fold     
chrisg6912 All-in  485.00 785.00 0.00
EL_HORNO Fold     
loza666 Call  485.00 1270.00 6435.00
RICEONE Call  385.00 1655.00 8535.00
sinoz All-in  5165.00 6820.00 0.00
loza666 All-in  6435.00 13255.00 0.00
RICEONE Call  6435.00 19690.00 2100.00
RICEONE Show
  • J
  • J
   
sinoz Show
  • Q
  • K
   
chrisg6912 Show
  • A
  • 6
   
loza666 Show
  • 9
  • 7
   
Flop
  
  • 7
  • 7
  • 4
   
Turn
  
  • 3
   
River
  
  • 3
   
loza666 Win Full House, 7s and 3s 19690.00
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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino
    edited December 2011
    Definitely prefer calling pre. Its prob a bad play at a table where people call it off with 97, might be ok with decent reads
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited December 2011
    What tourny is it mate ?? looks like a b/hunter to me
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  • sinozsinoz
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.:
    What tourny is it mate ?? looks like a b/hunter to me
    Posted by debdobs_67
    Was the £1,000 D/S at 8.15. It Felt that lozza had played a lot of rubbish so the all in was to force the fold. RICEONE was fairly new to table at this point. Blinds were 200 (the first break was a minute away which was more annoying than the beat!). Small stack was likely to shove almost anything. Is KQ suited a strong enough hand to shove at this point of the tourney? ie how can I tell if this play would win more than it loses in the longer run?
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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu
    edited December 2011
    It's 285 to call, last to act pre-flop so I just call, see a flop and re-assess. If you shove and get called, what are you beating besides an uber loose call with 79? Can understand shoving to isolate if that's what you're trying to do and it's a bounty hunter, however, I think calling is still better here.

    I'd actually consider folding JJ if I'm Rice in that spot, with a shove albeit from the short stack, a re-shove and a call.
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited December 2011
    why are u all in here looks like ya turning ya hand into a bluff and your hand is a good hand to see a flop and hit big when u go all in u are only getting called by a better hand this is a deffo call and see a flop and if im honest bad play its never a all in here 
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  • sinozsinoz
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.:
    It's 285 to call, last to act pre-flop so I just call, see a flop and re-assess. If you shove and get called, what are you beating besides an uber loose call with 79? Can understand shoving to isolate if that's what you're trying to do and it's a bounty hunter, however, I think calling is still better here. I'd actually consider folding JJ if I'm Rice in that spot, with a shove albeit from the short stack, a re-shove and a call.
    Posted by EvilPingu
    Yeah - makes sense - think I was getting a bit impatient/greedy and thinking of the quick climb up the leader board! Thanks
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  • sinozsinoz
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.:
    why are u all in here looks like ya turning ya hand into a bluff and your hand is a good hand to see a flop and hit big when u go all in u are only getting called by a better hand this is a deffo call and see a flop and if im honest bad play its never a all in here 
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Thanks - its funny how the situation seems so clear after the event! I'm looking at it now thinking why!!This is not normally how I would play. As I say, not worried about the beat, just trying to understand the correct play in the future.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited December 2011
    It looks pretty good to me..........

    The player you normally worry about here is the guy first in to the pot. As he's all in, the ranges of the players behind become alot weaker.

    Plenty of fold equity in your stack size and a hand that does okay against likely calling ranges.


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  • sinozsinoz
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.:
    It looks pretty good to me.......... The player you normally worry about here is the guy first in to the pot. As he's all in, the ranges of the players behind become alot weaker. Plenty of fold equity in your stack size and a hand that does okay against likely calling ranges.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Can you explain fold equity please
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited December 2011
    thats what ithis forum is for pal and good of u to post a hand that u think u have played it badly u learn by ya mistakes in poker and the feedback is great so it trys and improves are games its good that u posted it because if ya didnt u might of done the same thing in a different tourney so hope the advice has helped :) 
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited December 2011
    fold equity means they must have something good to call u with ya all in your raisng an extra 5k or so when u are all in so this means u are representing a stronger hand than u have this would get medium pairs to fold and a 10 a j to fold 
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.:
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed. : Was the £1,000 D/S at 8.15. It Felt that lozza had played a lot of rubbish so the all in was to force the fold. RICEONE was fairly new to table at this point. Blinds were 200 (the first break was a minute away which was more annoying than the beat!). Small stack was likely to shove almost anything. Is KQ suited a strong enough hand to shove at this point of the tourney? ie how can I tell if this play would win more than it loses in the longer run?
    Posted by sinoz
    I think ya may have overplayed it a wee bit , its why i thought it may have been a b/hunter cos it looked like ya was trying to isolate , tho as dohh says ure hand can play well sumtimes here.
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  • loza666loza666
    edited December 2011
    sorry about this guys i was on major tilt in all my tournys on here tonight because of something on another site, u'll be pleased to know i went all in with 96 just after and went out, hopefully ill be on my best game tomorrow.
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  • LeviathonLeviathon
    edited December 2011
    It is seriously annoying how the cash players behave in this forum.
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  • LeviathonLeviathon
    edited December 2011
    I mostly refer to EvilPingu: Call and reassess.  WTF?
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  • pryce6pryce6
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.:
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed. : Can you explain fold equity please
    Posted by sinoz
    He means the amount of equity you gain when the other players fold. Because they have only flatted in this hand, you would consider their hands to be relatively weak and the likelyhood of them folding and you winning the pot without showdown is pretty high. You got called in two spots and were still 41% to win the hand..

    It's complicated by the fact the OR is allin, but you have to consider yourself ahead of his range.

    To the people who said call, it's not a call. I much prefer the jam, I think you played it well. Don't doubt this kind of play just because you lost this time.
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  • ricky1984ricky1984
    edited December 2011
    I also prefer the jam in this spot, i think you played it well.

    Also dont agree with the comment 'ur only getting called by a better hand'. Once we jam, we are not looking to get called are we? The whole concept of jamming from the big blind in this spot is isolate the short stack who's shoving range could well be worse than KQ. the fact that the other two called we are certainly not putting either of them on JJ.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited December 2011
    Well played imo

    fold equity is where you say there's a percentage chance player x will fold, lets say in this case there's a 60% chance oppo's fold, therefore this increases your overall perceived equity

    If you beleive oppo will never fold then you have 0% fold equity

    lets say pre flop you beleive you have 30% equity, if you think oppo will fold 30% of the time then a shove is fine

    pot equity + fold equity = total equity

    ps. ignore the shorty all in, like what has been said above if there only calling - there weak - size of pot is enough to jam
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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.:
    It is seriously annoying how the cash players behave in this forum.
    Posted by Leviathon

    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.:
    I mostly refer to EvilPingu: Call and reassess.  WTF?
    Posted by Leviathon
    1) I don't play cash much. I don't really know what that's got to do with anything, really.
    2) It's just my opinion - A shove here will pick up an extra 1,000 chips or so from callers behind quite often, assuming you win the hand, but if you get called then you're probably going to be racing at best or behind to an ace. I never said that shoving was a bad play, I just stated my own preference here. 
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited December 2011
    Nice hand.
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  • pod1pod1
    edited December 2011
    bit harsh leviathon considering your track record as a "tourny" player on here.
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  • pod1pod1
    edited December 2011
    lol, now just worked out who this is .lol still bad thing to say!!!!!
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited December 2011
    Couple of things on this.

    It depends whether callers are the type to call twice with Ax etc. We still wont be too bad equity wise anyway, but that doesnt mean its always the best option, we also lose our stack a lot of times we are called

    Also calling keeps in lots of worse Ks and Qs and we can play profitably very easily postflop if we flat. If we miss and have to c/f its only 2bb

    I think you can argue for both plays. Against good solid players I like the shove, against fish I think its close but I would lean towards flatting
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  • sinozsinoz
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Bad result but was this a terrible play? Marks out of 10 and feedback wlecomed.:
    sorry about this guys i was on major tilt in all my tournys on here tonight because of something on another site, u'll be pleased to know i went all in with 96 just after and went out, hopefully ill be on my best game tomorrow.
    Posted by loza666
    Thanks for this post. Yeah saw you went out about 7 places later - wasting my chips like that lol!! Funnily enough I had folded 64 suited in dealer position a few hands before. Was livid that I bottled a raise on the button and even more livid when it flopped a full house!! See you again sometime - well played.
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