Is this a call??

Batkin88

Obv a very strong player playing well over ten tables at the time so cant really think he is at it here, but is there a correct play here?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
offshoot	Small blind		£0.50	£0.50	£109.40
Batkin88	Big blind		£1.00	£1.50	£97.50
	Your hole cards	8 8
lolufold	Raise		£4.00	£5.50	£217.13
GliterBabe	Fold
ezryder	Fold
varney	Fold
offshoot	Call		£3.50	£9.00	£105.90
Batkin88	Call		£3.00	£12.00	£94.50
Flop
		5 5 7
offshoot	Check
Batkin88	Check
lolufold	Bet		£9.00	£21.00	£208.13
offshoot	Fold
Batkin88	Raise		£24.00	£45.00	£70.50
lolufold	All-in		£208.13	£253.13	£0.00
Batkin88

potattoooo

why did you raise the flop?

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: Is this a call??:

why did you raise the flop?
Posted by potattoooo

this

rancid

In Response to Re: Is this a call??:

In Response to Re: Is this a call?? : this
Posted by SHANXTA

that

IDONKCALLU

+ 1 y raise this flop looks like ya turning ya hand into a bluff and 88 is a strong hand on this flop i would call flop bet and see what villain does on the turn if its a blank im happy to call down for showdown 

Batkin88

to shut hand down and didnt want him betting into me on the turn (which would happen) when likely there would be over cards

beaneh

In Response to Re: Is this a call??:

to shut hand down and didnt want him betting into me on the turn (which would happen) when likely there would be over cards
Posted by Batkin88

if there are overcards and he doesn't have them but he's still betting that's good for us no?

by raising you are just folding out all worse and having him put in all better right? if so thats pants. don't do it.

if you think he thinks you can be raising for info/raising and folding alot raise and do a call. but have an idea as to whether you want to stack off before you raise.

Batkin88

yeah i thought i was ahead and when i made the raise i had very intention of getting it in but when he came back over the top it just didnt seem right knowing he was on so many tables

potattoooo

In Response to Re: Is this a call??:

In Response to Re: Is this a call?? : if there are overcards and he doesn't have them but he's still betting that's good for us no? by raising you are just folding out all worse and having him put in all better right? if so thats pants. don't do it. if you think he thinks you can be raising for info/raising and folding alot raise and do a call. but have an idea as to whether you want to stack off before you raise.
Posted by beaneh

plz post more

potattoooo

In Response to Re: Is this a call??:

yeah i thought i was ahead and when i made the raise i had very intention of getting it in but when he came back over the top it just didnt seem right knowing he was on so many tables
Posted by Batkin88

by raising you are allowing him to bluff you very easily

mickgil75

UR 88 looks good,but i reckon he had jj.when u have a pkt pair on ur table,usually 2 others have aswell,thats why there,s loadsa all ins in mtt,in my xperience,it was a good fold.ul

mickgil75

PS.I don,t think u were bluffed.

nug82

I would say he is rep A,Q suited or above. I think a call would have been the correct play as above the raise invited the all in bluff. I personally would have called and re-asses on the turn.

LnarinOO

u cant c/r fold ever i dont think.. but heres some math to see if call is plus EV against a fair range.

i stoved 8c8d against this range 99+,AJs+,KJs+,QJs,AQo+... which i think is a fair range on this board texture for lolufold shoving range.. its hard for any overs to be dead and obv any pair is also 3 bet shoving flop.. 

our equity is 46% against this range.. so ..

EV = (0.46 x +116) + (0.54 x -70.5)

EV = (53.4) + (-38.1)

EV = £15.30

i think my math is correct, and if it is on average we will make £15.30 agaisnt £0 if we fold. its a +EV call agaisnt this range. 

does anyone think this range is too wide? 

DOHHHHHHH

I dunno how u do post flop ranges on stove but I assume your   ,AJs+,KJs+,QJs,  are only suited in hearts right????

And what is AQo+ doing in there???? 

LnarinOO

i think AKos and AQos can be in his range as BAtkin88 isn't repping much and basically i would look at his rangne as any 7x hand 99, 88, 66,maybe 10's.. i think lolufold can 3bet bluff a hand like AK AQos with some equity if called.. ?? i no i would ..!

rancid

either way behind or way ahead - pot control flop
v lol_folds range Batkin is a slight dog (99+,AJs+,KJs+,QJs,AQo+)
depends what percentage of the time lol_fold flips bluffs

should be -EV for Batkin to call I think without doing the maths )

rancid

even if you stick some bluffs, Batkin not looking great

55+,ATs+,KTs+,83s,A9o+

DOHHHHHHH

I'd prob put it as JJ+ & AKhh, AQhh, AJhh, AThh, KQhh

LnarinOO

ive done the math and its +EV but thats on the range i gave which i thinks a fair one but maybe to wide but defo possible

rancid

In Response to Re: Is this a call??:

I'd prob put it as JJ+ & AKhh, AQhh, AJhh, AThh, KQhh
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Probably more on the money, don't think batkins looking at more than 40% equity ie. fold :S

rancid

In Response to Re: Is this a call??:

u cant c/r fold ever i dont think.. but heres some math to see if call is plus EV against a fair range. i stoved 8c8d against this range 99+,AJs+,KJs+,QJs,AQo+... which i think is a fair range on this board texture for lolufold shoving range.. its hard for any overs to be dead and obv any pair is also 3 bet shoving flop..  our equity is 46% against this range.. so .. EV = (0.46 x +116) + (0.54 x -70.5) EV = (53.4) + (-38.1) EV = £15.30 i think my math is correct, and if it is on average we will make £15.30 agaisnt £0 if we fold. its a +EV call agaisnt this range.  does anyone think this range is too wide? 
Posted by LnarinOO

Effective stack  is 94.50
Someting don't seem right dude

Time of action look at what Batkin has, not total - i think :S

LnarinOO

i think EV neutral is ~38% . so if its only suited range plus pairs then its defo a fold.. 

and rancid i done that presuming that 46% of the time we will win £116 which is the £70.50 lolufold puts us in for + £45 already in the pot.  we cant include (our £70.5) what already ours..just what we'll win ..

how would u do the math as maybe im wrong??

rancid

In Response to Re: Is this a call??:

i think EV neutral is ~38% . so if its only suited range plus pairs then its defo a fold..  and rancid i done that presuming that 46% of the time we will win £116 which is the £70.50 lolufold puts us in for + £45 already in the pot.  we cant include (our £70.5) what already ours..just what we'll win .. how would u do the math as maybe im wrong??
Posted by LnarinOO

It's been a while, have to read up a little - thought it was amount at the time of the action

May just be confused

LnarinOO

yea but the action we want to work out is after we c/r the flop.. theres £45 in the pot with £70.50 behind, as we cant take any out the pot we work from here.. and maybe it too wide of a range but i done 46% of the time we will win the whole (profit) £116. 

and 54% of the time we will lose £70.50 that we call .. 

i think EV neutral is ~ 38% so need equity higher than this to show profit if we call 

and i would call after raisin this flop but wouldn't raise flop myself

rancid

In Response to Re: Is this a call??:

yea but the action we want to work out is after we c/r the flop.. theres £45 in the pot with £70.50 behind, as we cant take any out the pot we work from here.. and maybe it too wide of a range but i done 46% of the time we will win the whole (profit) £116.  and 54% of the time we will lose £70.50 that we call ..  i think EV neutral is ~ 38% so need equity higher than this to show profit if we call  and i would call after raisin this flop but wouldn't raise flop myself
Posted by LnarinOO

yeah, something like that - need to get my chicken in oven - emmm sunday roast )
Think your right m8ty

• Call and hit = win x (total pot)

• Probability of hitting =

• Call and miss = lose x (amount to call only)

• Probability of missing =

 

 

Still a fold )

elldixon18

Just stepping out of the math war Batkin I'm looking at the table and wondering where the value at this cash game is? There's an old phrase that comes to mind (sorry!).

NColley

top point elldixon, table select better imo.

As for the action, if you are check/raising to induce the shove then do a little dance and call. Personally I wouldn't of checked raised this at all, you invited all hands that we are crushed vs/at best flipping vs to shove and all his bluffs that he might double barrell to fold.


I also came to the conclusion that it's a call maths wise, but I would imagine its high variance in the long run.

grantorino

dont raise, when you do you should be intending to call