Hooked

Majj

Afternoon all,

A starting hand that I'm sure has probably been debated a lot here before: Jacks. How to play them?

It was discussed a little by James 'Artigan on the Primo show this week, 'jacks never win'. For me they never even get to showdown - you're asking for trouble if you shove with them preflop, the best you can hope for is either blinds or a call by a lower pocket pair, but most likely you're racing or dominated. However if it doesn't go all in I'm always scared of a caller off any flop where there's A K or Q, which must be something around 75% of the time, if I'm in position I'm reraising most bets but then giving up the hand if that's called, out of position I'm betting off most of my stack down the streets. For me I suppose any pair below queens is for set-mining, but I'm SURE there's a better way to play it.

As part of my question really: On the show they often say Jacks are the 4th best starting hand, Tens are the 5th... Is this right? If so how far down the list of pocket pairs do you go before AK is stronger?

Any hand someone could post and discuss with Js or Ts would be good

Talon

  Right first of all JJ is a good strong hand and should be played with tempered aggression.

  The chances of an A, K or Q coming down on the flop are near enough 50/50. Obviously the more that are out the less this becomes.

  For me playing JJ under normal circumstances is to raise it up pre to at the least thin the field down. It would be worse losing to someone 2 pairing 8 5. When the flop comes down you should be able to put any opponents on a range of hands and can work from there. Always bet out on the flop even if a scare card arrives because you still have the opportunity to win there and then. This is where the harder bit comes in, the answer you get from an opponent. If you get an answer that makes you think you are beat then be prepared to lay the hand down.If you think you are good then increase the aggression.

   The hardest skill to learn in the game of poker is when to lay a good hand down. Some people refuse to ever do so and others can do it too easily.


  If you get JJ late on in an MTT or STT then the only course of action is to shove with it. At this point you should be prepared to shove with less anyway.

 So simply put , play it like Monty Python's King Arthur....     Charge........Run Away

ACESOVER8s

As a personal play point i slightly over raise them to try and isolate it to HU and i don't particularly back off when an A K or Q lands on it's own on the flop. You have to remember that your opponents will only hit 1 in three flops here. If you slow down on the flop they are likley to represent and then your either making crying calls or more likley laying down your hand.

Bet the flop when these cards come (if there's only one of them) and your doing 2 things. 1 your forcing them to draw if say the flop comes K 7 4 but what they called you with was A Q, and your representing the King so you may be ahead with your jacks or you may have been called with queens and you've just represented higher. If they play back strongly i'm probably putting it down.

This is all only relevent based on the player your up against. If you know their range then this is going to make your decision for you as to how to play them. Really difficult out of position though as your open to a lot of calls, i'm still raising them but much more likley to lay down on the flop.

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: Hooked:

   play it like Monty Python's King Arthur....     Charge........Run Away
Posted by Talon

LOL quality line, i really like that Talon

Sky_Dave

Treat them like pocket ten and a halves. That way you're less likely to fall in love with them. Seriously, it works wonders for me - you will never see me go broke in a tournament with Jacks.

No, I go broke with A-5s because I am poker's equivalent of Eddie 'The Eagle' Edwards,,,

scrumdown

use   useally   treat  them  like  8s    dave  if  i  hit  the   that  great    get   over   cards  not  hit   bin  them

Sky_Dave

Only problem doing it that way scrum is you get really confused when a 9 comes and you think you've been outflopped - hence the 10.5s

acebarry10

In Response to Hooked:

Afternoon all, A starting hand that I'm sure has probably been debated a lot here before: Jacks. How to play them? It was discussed a little by James 'Artigan on the Primo show this week, 'jacks never win'. For me they never even get to showdown - you're asking for trouble if you shove with them preflop, the best you can hope for is either blinds or a call by a lower pocket pair, but most likely you're racing or dominated. However if it doesn't go all in I'm always scared of a caller off any flop where there's A K or Q, which must be something around 75% of the time, if I'm in position I'm reraising most bets but then giving up the hand if that's called, out of position I'm betting off most of my stack down the streets. For me I suppose any pair below queens is for set-mining, but I'm SURE there's a better way to play it. As part of my question really: On the show they often say Jacks are the 4th best starting hand, Tens are the 5th... Is this right? If so how far down the list of pocket pairs do you go before AK is stronger? Any hand someone could post and discuss with Js or Ts would be good
Posted by Majj

Hi majj

You will find that any PP is stronger than AK, even 22 allthough there isnt much in it tbh

Majj

Cheers Acebarry, ah yes of course statistically - but it's an interesting one because obviously AK plays a lot better post flop, I don't think too many people would prefer pocket 2s. Which raises the question - if you can't decide the better hand statistically, what CAN you decide it on? And so where does AK rate in comparison?

offshoot

because we never get to see our opponents hand when making a decision you should judge hand strength by how well your hand fairs against the range of hands they might have.

Say we raise with AKs and get re-raised by a good semi aggressive player. If we assume he has a normal re-raising range of TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AQo, AQs, AKo, AKs. Then AKs against that range is actually a 51% favourite where as if we have JJ then were actually a 46% underdog. So even though JJ may be a favourite over AKs, AKs isnt dominated by as many hands in our opponents range so i would much prefer to have it.

Urdadi

I play them aggressive depending on my position on the table and also depending on what action has gone on before. Will not hang onto them if I don't like the look of the other players still in at the turn or the cards now on show. Will fold if I feel it is the right course of action for me. However, my stance will also consider if it is a tournament, bubble or cash game.

I am not a major fan of any hand as have had too many bad beats with AA, KK or AK etc. So I do tend to play the situation rather than the cards.