AK.....how good/bad are these two cards?

MAXALLY

Right....need to get something of my chest and i have heard this is the place to do it.

Ace King.....forget position/chip stack/and all them 'other' factors that you are supose to use to make poker decisions. This is a purely simply question i would like some feed back on. And yes, i am fully away of variance and all that jazz. You probably think this is yet another 'bad beat' story and yet another small player bleating on about his bad luck. And yes if i read this, i would probably agree but.....here it is anyway..

I make a note of every tourney i play in with regard to stake, finishing position, return (if any) and the hand i went out on against the hand that beat me, and after just going out in a £1500 B/H tonight with AK v 88 which I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH WHATSOEVER, i decided to look back at a few tourney exits with this result -

Out of the last 25 tourney exits i have lost WITH AK (whether suited or not) an amazing 9 times!!. Yes i know it is only Ace high but the odds of this have sent me to Area 51 for the first time.

I have won with it aswell, granted, but to keep getting knocked out with it so many times is just tilt material.

Anyway......AK.......top cards or just Ace high........???

Try not to belittle me too much in your answers guys and girls. Just need some feed back really.

(thanks for reading my rant)

unknown_username

Hi Maxally.    That wasn't a rant and it's not a conspiracy blurb either. My opinion of AK is probably the standard answer. AK is a good raising hand but not such a good calling hand. I wouldn't be looking at the hand AK, rather I'd be looking at the all-in situations. AK is going to win some and it's certainly going to lose some. If you play it as an all-in 3 times in a tournament and it wins 2 and loses 1 that's not unusual. But if the 3rd is an all-in that takes you out you will remember it and forget about the other two.......it's natural and what we all do. Take a look at how your playing the hand and ask yourself whether you needed to be all-in. If your calling the all-in then as I said AK isn't a great calling hand. If your getting your money in first and getting beat then you will win some and lose some. If your going all-in because you are needing to double up most of the time, then look at the rest of your game so that you don't end up in that position as often.

It's late and I'm tired and that's ended up a bit of a ramble....hope it makes sense. 

Edit: Reading your profile you were going well in October and won a couple of BH's. This is probably just variance,......You can't win them all. A 20% cashing rate in mtts is good.

MAXALLY

Thank you for your reply and views on my 'non rant' ELSADOG. I have read your comments with a open mind and found them to be very useful. Like i said, i had just come from one of those AK moments and since posting had a couple of southern comforts to chill out a bit and re focus. After putting the cat out for the night, i did try to remember how many were all ins or calls and yes the majority may of been me being over aggressive and not looking to see if the situation demanded an all in or not. This is something i will now bring into my game and evalute the situation rather than the cards which hopefully should improve my thought process.

And yes it is late so i will have a night cap and retire with less worry about my play now.

And i have just realised i dont have a cat so god knows what i put out my front door tonight.......possibly my laptop!

Thank you again for your comments

scrumdown

hate  ak   when  your  deep  in  a  tourney  nearly  always  get  busted  by  pocket  pairs   end  of  the day  its  only  ace  high too  many  people  just  cant  let   it go  if  u  miss the  flop

Talon

  AK is along with JJ the most hotly contested starting hands in poker.  Everybody knows that it is a good strong hand but the ways to play it vary from player to player.  It is definitely a raising hand and you should always raise with it. However it is not as some people believe an auto all-in hand under any circumstance.Late in a tourny it is a great shoving hand and a pretty good shove calling hand. But early doors it is best to see a flop and decide your strategy from there.

   We are all aware that against an underpair it is pretty much 50/50, but the interesting statistic is that against a very poor hand like 72off it is only about 68% favourite. In other words against 2 undercards it will only win 2 out of 3 times.
 
  The best way to play this hand is IT DEPENDS. You have to use your knowledge of situations and any reads you have on your fellow players.AK plays best against weaker aces, so if you find someone who raises with these then you have your situation.

  Any issues with AK can not be solved in 1 or 100 posts and it will long remain a contested issue. All i can say is play them how you most feel comfortable with and do not get hung up on individual results.

dav1964

My general rule is i will push ALL-IN with it,i may only call an ALL-IN with it depending on opponents chipstack and i usually would FOLD it if there are TWO ALL-INS before me.My overall rating of it is only about 7/10 and i am not that lucky with it if you are racing an underpair.gl m8  

margatemaf

Scrumdown makes a top point!! it is only ace high. Personally i do like these cards. But as dave has pointed out that it really does depend on who's called how much etc as to how i play them. Gl on the tables

loonytoons

I agree its a great hand to bet with but not as good to call with, dont forget it doesnt even beat 2-2, however if you hit an ace or a king then it can be very good. I say you can always lay these 2 cards down to a bi big raise, however i cannot remember the last time i did fold this pre flop.

unknown_username

..hmm my opinion ......  AK is the  'Holy Grail'  of poker ...so powerful and yet your holding nothing !!
In most cases, as with most hands, the cards are not the  important thing ?..... 

The situation you find yourself  in at any given time reflects  when and where you play any hand .........

This games .... never easy !!  glk  benny

IRISHROVER

i only min raise with ak now this way you are not commiting yourself to them ,

if u miss flop bet half pot ,

this way u are not going in deep with them.

RaggyAce

AK - Anna Kournikova - Looks good, never wins anything

mrsmarley

you say you lost 9 times with ak but not how many times you had ak.

ak is overated by most people,i always limp in with it unless i sense i can steal the blinds with it when they are big enough.the amount of times you miss with ak on flop is of course 2 out of 3 times so i like to limp or call a raise then if you hit no one believes you have ak because you didnt chuck half ya stack in pre flop lol.......

margatemaf

In Response to Re: AK.....how good/bad are these two cards?:

AK - Anna Kournikova - Looks good, never wins anything
Posted by RaggyAce

Wicked!! will use that line myself ..... funny as fook RaggyAce

BADBOY985

In Response to Re: AK.....how good/bad are these two cards?:

..hmm my opinion ......  AK is the  'Holy Grail'  of poker ...so powerful and yet your holding nothing !! In most cases, as with most hands, the cards are not the  important thing ?.....  The situation you find yourself  in at any given time reflects  when and where you play any hand ......... This games .... never easy !!  glk  benny
Posted by bennydip2

SPOT ON BENNY, CANT BELIEVE HOY MANY PLAYERS HAVE A RANGE OF HANDS THEY FEEL ARE ALL IN CALL ANYTHING HANDS IRRELEVENT OF THE SITUATION

apollo_11

I will always raise with A K pre flop, but to call an all in with them would depend on the situation and the number of chips I have and the all in player has.
After all, A K is strong pre flop, but once the flop has been missed, it is only A high.

Talon

   The biggest problem i see with AK is the fact that peopple are reluctant to fold it. I have seen many people calling down all the streets including the river, despite not having connected with it in any way. AK is a big hand but as they always say the sign of a great player is the ability to fold your big hands. Saw a hand recently AK vs 99, 9 came in on the flop and no A or K came in and the AK player called all streets including an all in on the river. Net result he was felted after showing Ace High.
 Good raising hand but be prepared to let go if ou do not connect.

scrumdown

y  do  u  think  its  nicknamed  the  big slick  lol

BOSSBOX

A K is my bogey hand and although hard to believe i will fold it 8/10 times! The only time i play it is if i can get away with a flat call, apart from that i fold it.

epwb

worse thing with being all in with a k ,is hitting two pair on the flop ,only to see that it helped the villan go on to make their straight.  this has happened to me on more than one occation   

apollo_11

In Response to Re: AK.....how good/bad are these two cards?:

worse thing with being all in with a k ,is hitting two pair on the flop ,only to see that it helped the villain go on to make their straight.  this has happened to me on more than one occation   
Posted by epwb

Not the nicest thing to happen, but I have also had the same thing happen to me on more than one occasion.

LadyFingrs

AK.....how good/bad are these two cards?

Very good

Dudeskin8

This is how good they are LOL.

Mrnick101	Small blind		75.00	75.00	2962.50
Dudeskin8	Big blind		150.00	225.00	1370.00
	Your hole cards	A K
nogbet	Raise		300.00	525.00	3735.00
HELLRAZOR	Fold
olebiggles	All-in		965.00	1490.00	0.00
Mrnick101	Fold
Dudeskin8	All-in		1370.00	2860.00	0.00
nogbet	Call		1220.00	4080.00	2515.00
Dudeskin8	Show	A K
nogbet	Show	A K
olebiggles	Show	K A
Flop
		8 7 A
Turn
		5
River
		9
olebiggles	Win	Flush to the Ace	2970.00		2970.00
nogbet	Win	Pair of Aces	555.00		3070.00
Dudeskin8	Win	Pair of Aces	555.00		555.00

epwb

bad luck there dudeskin8.looks like olebiggles was using the force .jedi,s should be banned fom this site

TENOFSPADE

hi maxally ,AK early on in a mtt is just ACE high for me ,i will make a small raise with it  ,but if i dont connect with the flop , and my opponents showing interest ,its the easiest thing in the world to fold ,.............but in the latter stages of a mtt, AK is an absolute MONSTER ,and im shoving it allin every time without fail ....hope this helps gl m8 ten

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: AK.....how good/bad are these two cards?:

hi maxally ,AK early on in a mtt is just ACE high for me ,i will make a small raise with it  ,but if i dont connect with the flop , and my opponents showing interest ,its the easiest thing in the world to fold ,.............but in the latter stages of a mtt, AK is an absolute MONSTER ,and im shoving it allin every time without fail ....hope this helps gl m8 ten
Posted by TENOFSPADE

Cheers for the post TEN. That is exactly how i do play it but every time i seem to shove with it at later stages of MTT it gets beat!...I have fair enough races with 10 10, J J and even 2 2. It is just the times when i am all in v say A 8 or A 7 of that ilke and the river normally pairs the villians weaker kicker which sends me to 'kick the cat' land.

Thank you to all the other posters on this thread aswell. There has been some really good feed back and i will be slighty wiser in future, i hope.

Cheers ALL

MAXALLY

Just a quick footnote to this thread.

I last night played in  4 MTT's.
1) Had QQ on the button, some one 3 bet (i think) in front of me. Same sized stack, so i shoved all in. Called. He showed AK (suited i think) which hit an Ace. Game over.
2) Next MTT, i was crippled when AK called my all in (i was low stacked) with JJ. Game virtually over.

3) I HAD AK in my next MTT, AQ called a near all in after a few raise, re raise mins. Hit his Q. Game over.

So as you could imagine, my AK experience of the night was not going too well. But the icing on the cake was yet to come.....
4) £1000 velocity - Quite early in the tourney. I had AA on the button. One min raise.....then a 3 bet in front of me so i moved half my stack in. The two small raisers went ALL IN so i called in a flash. Cards on backs. My AA was up against 55......and 22!!!. 55 hit a straight on the river!!....GAME/NIGHT OVER!!!

Please dont take all the above as bad beat bleatings....IT ISNT!. I understand varaince and in instances 1 - 3, would of probably done the same as my oppenents. Its just an observation on my play with or against AK. I added the AA to prove what a lot of players know but sometimes dont take on board, that any two cards can beat any two cards regardless of stack size...position.....reputation....etc etc etc.

Taking a few days off now to rest so hope to see you all at the tables next week when the fun begins again.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL - AND YES!, YOU DO NEED LUCK IN THIS GAME. 

MAXALLY

Had to put yet another footnote to this thread.


Played in on of the deepstack's 2nite for the 1st time (tikay's sleepstake) and was happy with my overall game. i finished 18th/30 which aint too bad for a newbie on one of those but the hand that crippled my stack....

I had AK in a late position, someone 3 bets in front of me so i came over the top to get heads up. Ace on the flop, bet from EP....so i raise....he goes all in so i call. He has A5 and hits his straight on the river. Not sure i could of played this any different or if i played it wrong but need to get it out of my system so went to play in the £1500 B/H where.........

yep.....my AK was cracked by another A5 rag!!!!....79th/148.

So i rounded the night off in a £4 entry £300 GTD MTT. Here i finished 3rd/79 and did not encounter AK once!!!!!

I rest my case.

Hogg321

with AK, you want to see a flop. what you dont want is to go allin preflop.

See the flop, hit your A/K and profit!

hammerant

I slow play AK early on, but i am going all in later.

Kevilfish

AK is a good hand.

Late in a tourney, there's only 2/169 hands you don't want to come up against, AA or KK. Any other hand and at worst you're a coin-flip. The other good thing about AK is anyone with ANY Ace (except Ace-Ace or Ace-King of course) going all in with you is a 25% underdog. 3 in 4 times you're doubling up against AQ, AJ, AT etc.


Early in a tourney, I'll raise it up with big-Aces, but if I don't hit I'll treat it the same as if I was playing mid-suited-connectors and miss, I'll let it go. There are obviously some exceptions, if I feel they are weak etc. I'd perhaps continue with the betting.

Action_Dan

Tournament - early on, it's drawing hand so don't get attached to it and happy to let go if miss completely. Later on, I'm using it to dominate and put decision on other players pre flop - if called I'm only worried about two hands and if everyone folds, I'm adding good % to my stack from blinds/antes!

Cash - play it strong and raise but still treat it as drawing hand so like to see flop more than moving in pre-flop. If hit, I'm more comfortable seeing the King rather than Ace because if board comes A 4 6, I'm always nervous someone called with A4/6 and outdrawn me whereas K 4 6 board feels much safer because rarely getting called with K4/6 etc! I'm willing to get the money in on flop in both scenarios fairly confident I'm ahead (all relative to knowing opponent of course) but there's still those nerves until the hands get flipped over and see their AQ/AJ not A4/6...hopefully that makes sense!