NL10 Opnions on my onions

rancid

lines

are we happy getting it all in

I was tired and just started bashing buttons to get it in without thinking tbh

opnions please

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
rancid	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£20.04
trevor1954	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£13.91
	Your hole cards	J Q
VietnamBob	Raise		£0.40	£0.55	£3.55
hotster197	Fold
rancid	Call		£0.35	£0.90	£19.69
trevor1954	Call		£0.30	£1.20	£13.61
Flop
		Q 10 7
rancid	Bet		£0.90	£2.10	£18.79
trevor1954	Raise		£3.90	£6.00	£9.71
VietnamBob	Fold
rancid	All-in		£18.79	£24.79	£0.00
trevor1954	All-in		£9.71	£34.50	£0.00
rancid	Unmatched bet		£6.08	£28.42	£6.08
rancid	Show	J Q
trevor1954	Show	Q A
Turn
		10
River
		A
trevor1954	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and Queens	£27.02		£27.02

Dudeskin8

I don't like calling pre OOP and especially against a guy with just 35bbs behind (implied odds don't exist), fold pre for me.

Flop, why are you donking out, for value, bluff or information?

I much prefer check raise or even check call.

As played his raise is pretty massive so can't see you ever being ahead but you have great draw plus TP so have to get it in.

rancid

In Response to Re: NL10 Opnions on my onions:

I don't like calling pre OOP and especially against a guy with just 35bbs behind (implied odds don't exist), fold pre for me. Flop,

why are you donking out, for value, bluff or information? I much prefer check raise or even check call.

As played his raise is pretty massive so can't see you ever being ahead but you have great draw plus TP so have to get it in.

Posted by Dudeskin8

Pre call is a bit loose, kinda thought the bb would come along  - so got odds there
But it's not ideal even though opener is opening a narrow range so i thought

flop is my concern, sure I am balanced but not so sure I need to worry about that at NL10 :S
probably c/r is best, really not sure - even c/c is good

when oppo raises, I don't think I got any FE - which makes me think fold tbh
only worse hands oppo has is FD + overs

kinda brings me back round to c/r flop, with FE v oppo range here

draws bug me _)

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: NL10 Opnions on my onions:

In Response to Re: NL10 Opnions on my onions : Pre call is a bit loose, kinda thought the bb would come along  - so got odds there But it's not ideal even though opener is opening a narrow range so i thought flop is my concern, sure I am balanced but not so sure I need to worry about that at NL10 :S probably c/r is best, really not sure - even c/c is good when oppo raises, I don't think I got any FE - which makes me think fold tbh only worse hands oppo has is FD + overs kinda brings me back round to c/r flop, with FE v oppo range here draws bug me _)
Posted by rancid

Not sure I'm in love with this logic, just excuses for spew pre OOP imo.

YOUNG_GUN

stop being such a nit Dudeskin

Played fine all streets UL, possibly can fold QJsuited pre but can be either way

gracie24

Call is fine but as you are not beating AQ, KQ and are looking for a flush I would small bet to contain or c/c a small bet.

robyoung

no offence dudeskin but your posts really annoy me when you say fold pre thats all i ever hear you say, fair enough if someone 3bets you, folding jq suited is fine, but folding it to a 3-4x raise is just daft, these are the kinds of hands which can hit huge and stack people

as for the hand, not much wrong really, just ul

yb

i think folding pre oop vs. a 35bb stack is probably correct

pod1

i think 5 handed jq suited is  just about in my range. 

rancid

In Response to Re: NL10 Opnions on my onions:

i think folding pre oop vs. a 35bb stack is probably correct
Posted by yb

versus a 35bb effective a fold is correct -
if it was 100bb effective then the call is ok,


People stop bashing Dudeskin - thanks

anyway I was pretty certain bb was calling, just because
maybe should of put this in my original post
more concerned with my post flop play tbh

robyoung

In Response to Re: NL10 Opnions on my onions:

In Response to Re: NL10 Opnions on my onions : versus a 35bb effective a fold is correct - if it was 100bb effective then the call is ok, People stop bashing Dudeskin - thanks anyway I was pretty certain bb was calling, just because maybe should of put this in my original post more concerned with my post flop play tbh
Posted by rancid

i dont mind your post flop play, if you switched roles with villain, would you be calling the reshove off with aq? your putting the hard decision onto the villain, even with tptk he cant be fully confident calling hes full stack with 1 pair

robyoung

actually just looked again, he reraised over a 1/3 of hes stack on flop didnt he so hes obviously guna call, my bad lol

Dudeskin8

The reason I would fold is not because I'm a nit it's because I like making poker easy.

What is your plan ranny when flop is A83, K72, 632 etc? Most times you gonna be check folding right? Are you gonna donk lead with air too to balance your range on flops mentioned above, are you gonna check raise on those flops too?

To me you've flopped great, best you could hope for really but most times IMO this is leaking money when you have to check fold. 

FWIW I would play this hand but IP on the Btn/CO and against a 100bb stack where I have more control.

Also if he's still here YOUNG_GUN you flame Spanky in BBV for limp calling w/57s and getting lucky but how is what ranny done here much different, if anything it's worse but yet you call me a nit for folding please explain mate I is so confused.

rancid

In Response to Re: NL10 Opnions on my onions:

The reason I would fold is not because I'm a nit it's because I like making poker easy. What is your plan ranny when flop is A83, K72, 632 etc? Most times you gonna be check folding right? Are you gonna donk lead with air too to balance your range on flops mentioned above, are you gonna check raise on those flops too? To me you've flopped great, best you could hope for really but most times IMO this is leaking money when you have to check fold.  FWIW I would play this hand but IP on the Btn/CO and against a 100bb stack where I have more control. Also if he's still here YOUNG_GUN you flame Spanky in BBV for limp calling w/57s and getting lucky but how is what ranny done here much different, if anything it's worse but yet you call me a nit for folding please explain mate I is so confused.
Posted by Dudeskin8

The question is purely pre flop and to answer your question "is this a bad call pre flop"
The answer would be yes at first glance because effective stack needs to be 100bb deep to be calling this size  raise with any kind of implied hand.
There are certain judgements you can apply to make this call if the price to call is />5% of effective stack.
The only favoiurable aspect was that the bb was very likely to call going on past play, so implied odss were ok
Also with the opener having a narrow range this was also favourable.
The fact I was OOP was not favaourable

The fact that I would balance this call with other implied hands or made hands pre flop so therefore my lead could be a number of hands I would play the same betting into the pre flop raiser.

Calling with implied hands is never straight forward
Essentially it's not about what we do on the flop when we miss, because that is easy we just fold
We just need to ensure we have the implied odds and favourable aspects

Dudeskin8

BB was likey to call - purely guessing imo, you need information in poker and only info you have here is pot will  most likely be against a 35bb stack, also even if BB does call you're still OOP to him so will be hard to play any hands optimly.

Opener having narrow range - Not sure how this helps you, if he has narrow range wouldn't this include AK/AQ/AJ/KQ/KJ, 4 of which dominate you? And adding on to this what happens when flop is same as above but without FD, do you donk lead then and then do you call or fold to raise, or do you just c/c 2/3 streets against a guy with a perceived tight range who probably isn't bluffing? This seems to me like you might be getting reverse implied odds.

OOP unfavourable - this for me is the most important factor that should have precidence over 'possible implied odds'. As an example how often on the Mastercash shows do you see the top guys calling raises out the blinds with marginal hands, yes if its a family pot and they're in BB closing the action but facing a single raise it's always raise or fold. 

rancid

Think your missing my point and you seem to be getting bogged down with the if, but’s and maybe – poker is full em

 

I agree v a 35 bb effective; it’s a bad call

Yes poker is about info, and the info I have is oppo in the bb likes to call in these spots a lot -  so I make the call

 

 

All we can do is call pre with the correct implied odds and then play post flop correctly with the odds presented to us

             We can’t play poker always thinking about the worst case scenario

Yeah maybe we c/c a Q high flop or maybe we just fold a Q high flop

Glass is always half full over here m8’ty

 

Why are we calling and what do we want ?

 

Yes we would love to have position and the effective to be 100bb or more and opener to have a narrow range , and have every favourbale aspect to scream call – but sometimes we just have to go with it and maybe we learn  along the way )

Dudeskin8

On the implied odds what are these refering to? 

Flopping 2pr, trips, FH's, top pair, second pair, str8s, SD's/FD's. I don't know the exact odds but i presume you know what the odds are of all these happening and how it makes the call correct, would be interested if you could go in to the maths a bit here but pretending it was a 100bb stack and how then it becomes a +EV call. 

FWIW otb I make the call all day long against a 100bb stacked guy but would just like some insight on how it's a good move OOP playing with one hand tied behind your back. 

rancid

In Response to Re: NL10 Opnions on my onions:

On the implied odds what are these refering to?  Flopping 2pr, trips, FH's, top pair, second pair, str8s, SD's/FD's. I don't know the exact odds but i presume you know what the odds are of all these happening and how it makes the call correct, would be interested if you could go in to the maths a bit here but pretending it was a 100bb stack and how then it becomes a +EV call.  FWIW otb I make the call all day long against a 100bb stacked guy but would just like some insight on how it's a good move OOP playing with one hand tied behind your back. 
Posted by Dudeskin8

pm sent