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Called because he had overcards.

jonjo75jonjo75
edited January 2012 in The Poker Clinic
ActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Doooobs Small blind  50.00 50.00 9430.00
jonjo75 Big blind  100.00 150.00 9125.00
  Your hole cards
  • 9
  • A
     
THENUTTS Raise  200.00 350.00 9830.00
AB0151 Fold     
NAKEDDAVE Fold     
What_if Fold     
Doooobs Fold     
jonjo75 Call  100.00 450.00 9025.00
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 3
  • 9
     
jonjo75 Check     
THENUTTS Bet  1500.00 1950.00 8330.00
jonjo75 All-in  9025.00 10975.00 0.00
THENUTTS Call  7525.00 18500.00 805.00
jonjo75 Show
  • 9
  • A
   
THENUTTS Show
  • K
  • J
   
Turn
   
  • K
     
River
   
  • Q
     
THENUTTS Win Pair of Kings 18500.00
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Comments

  • jonjo75jonjo75
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Called because he had overcards.:
    Action Cards Amount Pot Balance Doooobs Small blind   50.00 50.00 9430.00 jonjo75 Big blind   100.00 150.00 9125.00   Your hole cards 9 A       THENUTTS Raise   200.00 350.00 9830.00 AB0151 Fold         NAKEDDAVE Fold         What_if Fold         Doooobs Fold         jonjo75 Call   100.00 450.00 9025.00 Flop     7 3 9       jonjo75 Check         THENUTTS Bet   1500.00 1950.00 8330.00 jonjo75 All-in   9025.00 10975.00 0.00 THENUTTS Call   7525.00 18500.00 805.00 jonjo75 Show 9 A       THENUTTS Show K J       Turn     K       River     Q       THENUTTS Win Pair of Kings 18500.00
    Posted by jonjo75
    I checked because i knew he had been making big c bets with air.
    Anybody else make this call at that stage of tourney, am i completely wrong in thinking this is very  very very bad !
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited January 2012
    Does'nt matter how he played it. Thats out of your control jonjo. You had your read, you got your money in around 75% favourite and got outdrawn.

    If he showed you his cards, and asked you if you wanted the call you would snap his hand off.

    Just unlucky! 
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  • jonjo75jonjo75
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    Does'nt matter how he played it. Thats out of your control jonjo. You had your read, you got your money in around 75% favourite and got outdrawn. If he showed you his cards, and asked you if you wanted the call you would snap his hand off. Just unlucky! 
    Posted by DrSharp
    Thank you Dr , i was fuming for 5mins but over it now .
    Same time next week?
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    Fold preflop for me, it's only a minraise but most times you will miss he will cbet and win the hand, and even when you do hit your Ace he could easily have a better one or with the 9 he could have an overpair, he did raise UTG remember.

    As played he has overbet massively 3x the pot which is bizarre and tbh this deep I'd just fold lol, 90bbs at 50/100 is pretty massive and I personally wouldn't want to commit myself with this hand as I'm sure I could find a better spot.
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  • jonjo75jonjo75
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    Fold preflop for me, it's only a minraise but most times you will miss he will cbet and win the hand, and even when you do hit your Ace he could easily have a better one or with the 9 he could have an overpair, he did raise UTG remember. As played he has overbet massively 3x the pot which is bizarre and tbh this deep I'd just fold lol, 90bbs at 50/100 is pretty massive and I personally wouldn't want to commit myself with this hand as I'm sure I could find a better spot.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Agree with most of what you said but there had been a lot of previous between us ,he was either  on tilt or just totally reckless. I was 70% sure my A9 was ahead of his min raise utg , 80 %sure he would overbet cbet and 90% sure i was ahead post flop but now in the light of day i agree i prob could have found a better spot against him .
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  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    Fold preflop for me, it's only a minraise but most times you will miss he will cbet and win the hand, and even when you do hit your Ace he could easily have a better one or with the 9 he could have an overpair, he did raise UTG remember. As played he has overbet massively 3x the pot which is bizarre and tbh this deep I'd just fold lol, 90bbs at 50/100 is pretty massive and I personally wouldn't want to commit myself with this hand as I'm sure I could find a better spot.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    But if oppo assumed he's a bad player that doesn't matter at all.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards. : But if oppo assumed he's a bad player that doesn't matter at all.
    Posted by Poker_Fail
    Do you mean OP as in opening poster, if so where did he mention he thought villain was a bad player?

    Or do you mean oppo as in opponant though OP was a bad player, I danny understand?
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited January 2012
    If jonjo had a read like he had, that villain overbets when c-betting, i dont see a problem with how he has played the hand. I agree that the min raise utg is a slight concern, but jonjo has obviously been watching the guy and has been waiting for a spot like this and he was correct to do so. If villain has the goods this particular time then its slightly unlucky. If he is pushing the table around then you have to draw the line somewhere and play back at him. There sounds like there has been some history and hands dont play the same given certain information.

    Readless, its probably a fold pre out of position with a rag ace but if this guy is being over aggro as suggested i dont mind playing pots with him.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    If he has been cbetting with air a lot surely flatting the bet is a better play as when you shove you usually isolate all his made hands and any call you get is gonna be bad for you most times, here the guy called off 75bbs with KJ high but most times you'll see 10's+ when they call.
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  • ybyb
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards. : Agree with most of what you said but there had been a lot of previous between us ,he was either  on tilt or just totally reckless. I was 70% sure my A9 was ahead of his min raise utg , 80 %sure he would overbet cbet and 90% sure i was ahead post flop but now in the light of day i agree i prob could have found a better spot against him .
    Posted by jonjo75
    it's not so easy to be sure your infront when you don't hit a 9 high flop. there's not much use in A9 being ahead of his range preflop 70% of the time if you're just gonna be c/fing the flop all the time when you miss. 3bet or fold pre, flatting is the worst option imo.
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  • ybyb
    edited January 2012
    also hide the villain's name next time if you intend to criticise his play, but this section of the forum is supposed to be about improving your own game
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  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards. : Do you mean OP as in opening poster, if so where did he mention he thought villain was a bad player? Or do you mean oppo as in opponant though OP was a bad player, I danny understand?
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    I meant by OPs description of the other player, OK i must have been reading things that weren't there ?

    I must have been really distracted cos i thought OP described him as a fish, my bad :O
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards. : I meant by OPs description of the other player, OK i must have been reading things that weren't there ? I must have been really distracted cos i thought OP described him as a fish, my bad :O
    Posted by Poker_Fail
    I won't ask lol
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  • jonjo75jonjo75
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    also hide the villain's name next time if you intend to criticise his play, but this section of the forum is supposed to be about improving your own game
    Posted by yb
    OK didnt realise i should not leave names in, apologies .
    IT was also a question of my own play , at the time i believed i played it right got my cash in good and was snap called by two overcards but looking at it now  realise i could have found a better spot and sometimes even though you know exactly what someone is doing you have to be patient and wait for that spot .
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited January 2012
    Its what they do lol.

    You did right, make a note and punish him in every pot you ever play with him :p
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited January 2012
    I may have read this wrong, but it sounds like jonjo had his read and got it in good and got outdrawn. I dont see any problems at all. If the guy was c-betting over the pot then i call every time with a read like that. Better spots? His read suggests he doesnt need a better spot or am i just a hopeless gambler. I think op has just got unlucky.

    Personally, i may fold or 3-bet pre but once i hit tptk and the guy does as he is supposed to i snap call. If i am not doing this then fold pre flop.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    FWIW Mr Jonjo gave his reads 'after' I had replied, nice trick that lol

    Even with the reads I wouldn't be super happy about getting 90bbs in here.
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  • jonjo75jonjo75
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    FWIW Mr Jonjo gave his reads 'after' I had replied, nice trick that lol Even with the reads I wouldn't be super happy about getting 90bbs in here.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    I think in my second post i said i had seen him over betting his c bets with air , i did not make anything up because of what you said . Your statement is calling me a liar and not just that you are suggesting i am lying to impress you which i can assure you  i am not .
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited January 2012
    ultimately his instincts were right n got villain to commit his stack with K high no pr no drw

    Fair play to him.  What else can the guy do?  He is protecting his hand vs a massive spewbox.  It is OTT, but against this kind of player our hand can easily get very tricky at turn.

    Seems like he did everything he could to win vs Kamikaze plyr.  Could argue station flop to ship turn, but villian is just as likely to call as he will perceive himself as "invested" lol.

    I'd be happy with it.  Generating super stack as 75 />%+ fav.  As played, I go get a biscuit while board runs, come back.  Tut, call villain a "*{*%" under by breath then move on :p

    (opponent likely trained @ zynga)
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited January 2012
    @ Jonjo - Yes you mention BIG cbets with air, this is different to overbetting which at any time is quite weird and can obviously become a tell.

    Also I'm not calling you a liar lol just that you didn't provide me with all the pieces to the puzzle or put them to me in a confusing way. 

    In future try and give ALL info in first post ;)

    Good luck man. 
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  • jonjo75jonjo75
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: Called because he had overcards.:
    @ Jonjo - Yes you mention BIG cbets with air, this is different to overbetting which at any time is quite weird and can obviously become a tell. Also I'm not calling you a liar lol just that you didn't provide me with all the pieces to the puzzle or put them to me in a confusing way.  In future try and give ALL info in first post ;) Good luck man. 
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    OK but i think telling you i had noticed him c betting big with air is saying i had a read(  how i played the hand is the biggest evidence) and saying i only told you after you had said is implying that i made it up after.
    I will endevor to be more precise in the future .
     Good luck to you also.
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