2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting

acemachine

Every time I play on sky, I go to the 6-max 2p/4p cash tables. I generally start well, sometimes even doubling up. However, every single session there's always one play that DOESN'T EVER FOLD PRE-FLOP. How can I prevent idiots like this one taking all my money? He also called my re-raise all in with K2 on another hand and beat my aces with trip Kings.

blondbird	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.27
selzzz	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.93
	Your hole cards	10 10
tadams	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£3.26
acemachine	Raise		£0.20	£0.30	£2.37
iain1972	Fold
GoodMan	Fold
blondbird	Fold
selzzz	Call		£0.16	£0.46	£1.77
tadams	Fold
Flop
		10 4 K
selzzz	Check
acemachine	Bet		£0.23	£0.69	£2.14
selzzz	Call		£0.23	£0.92	£1.54
Turn
		6
selzzz	Check
acemachine	Bet		£0.46	£1.38	£1.68
selzzz	Raise		£0.92	£2.30	£0.62
acemachine	All-in		£1.68	£3.98	£0.00
selzzz	All-in		£0.62	£4.60	£0.00
acemachine	Unmatched bet		£0.60	£4.00	£0.60
selzzz	Show	5 3
acemachine	Show	10 10
River
		2
selzzz	Win	Straight to the 6	£3.70		£3.70

acemachine

This person played every hand, re-raised every time there were 3 of one suit on the table and took the chips I'd won and then the chips I bought in with.

penguin7

If you think you are doing nothing wrong, think again about your betsizing on the flop and turn

EvilPingu

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

If you think you are doing nothing wrong, think again about your betsizing on the flop and turn
Posted by penguin7

This - At 2p/4p when everyone is calling you, you can bet really big (3/4 pot, pot, sometimes I overbet the pot as well), and someone will still call you, and you get more value for your hands.

DOHHHHHHH

The bet sizing in this hand is fine, as long as you looked at his stack & bet accordingly & this isn't your default bet sizing against bigger stacks.

In general though if in doubt bet bigger.

ul

rancid

if there calling pre and post raise bigger, bet bigger - win money

if they get lucky then hey ho, as long as you play correct all is good

Dudeskin8

You was an 86% fave on the turn but you will still lose 14% of the time, unless you can deal with this don't play. 

acemachine

Thanks for your help guys. I can deal with beats like this occassionally, but when they happen EVERY session, it gets a bit ridiculous. The other day I had KA on a K45 board, i raised and my opponent went all in. I called because he was trying to bluff every hand with an all in. He had pocket 7s. The next card is a 6 and the river is a 3. Then yesterday a guy re-raised me all in when I had aces, he had K2 and hit trip kings. I want to enjoy playing poker, not quit because all the bad players that have probably lost over £100 by playing bad, end up doubling up through me with 7 2. I actually suffer less bad beats in 5p/10p PLO, in which you have to deal with bad beats because they WILL happen. Help me out guys, this is just ridiculous.

pilgrim07

I feel your pain Acemachine. As you are obviously no novice, by "doing nothing wrong" at this level, you will undoubtably be a winning player in the long term. On the other hand if you are being tilted by the actions of a player on your table, move to another table! There are plenty of "easy" tables  at nl4. Good luck.

rancid

Winning players suffer bad beats more than losing players

 

If you getting your money in ahead (>50%)  then your doing nothing wrong

 

In the short term this feels unfair and sucks that your losing, but in the long term you will win if your playing correctly and getting your money in good. (>50%)

 

 

Eg. If we bet £1 on the outcome of a coin flip, which is 50/50

I choose heads

The first ten flips may go

 

HHTHHTTHHH

 

You are losing in the short term, but it will even out over the long run

acemachine

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

I feel your pain Acemachine. As you are obviously no novice, by "doing nothing wrong" at this level, you will undoubtably be a winning player in the long term. On the other hand if you are being tilted by the actions of a player on your table, move to another table! There are plenty of "easy" tables  at nl4. Good luck.
Posted by pilgrim07

Thanks Pilgrim, I think sometimes when things like this happen, i tend to go on a rampage to try and felt the person that did it to me. Especially when losing a set of 10s to runner runner straight. Do you have any tips on dealing with bad beats, etc? Also, would playing on 4-6 tables instead of just the two be an idea? I would have thought that would even out thte variance?

acemachine

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

Winning players suffer bad beats more than losing players   If you getting your money in ahead ( />50%)   then your doing nothing wrong   In the short term this feels unfair and sucks that your losing, but in the long term you will win if your playing correctly and getting your money in good. (>50%)     Eg. If we bet £1 on the outcome of a coin flip, which is 50/50 I choose heads The first ten flips may go   HHTHHTTHHH   You are losing in the short term, but it will even out over the long run
Posted by rancid

Thanks as well Rancid, I believe you were on the two tables I was playing so you saw the level of play and may have even remembered this player playing 98% of hands pre flop and seeing showdown about 88%? I generally respected your raises as I noticed you were multi-tabling and had amassed a huge amount of league points for 2p/4p. Is there an argument for me playing DYM sit and gos to try and build my bankroll as well? I find that PLO and NLH DYMs are pretty easy to win if JohnConnor isn't on the table.

AcidMan27

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting : Thanks Pilgrim, I think sometimes when things like this happen, i tend to go on a rampage to try and felt the person that did it to me. Especially when losing a set of 10s to runner runner straight. Do you have any tips on dealing with bad beats, etc? Also, would playing on 4-6 tables instead of just the two be an idea? I would have thought that would even out thte variance?
Posted by acemachine

You've got to try and distance yourself from that. When you're playing like that against one player it's getting too personal and ego takes over.

Maybe try writing a few pointers on some paper and having them nearby when you're playing.

Things like........... bad beats will happen, it's part of the game.

Don't let it get personal, think about every hand on it's own merit.

BADBOY985

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting : Thanks as well Rancid, I believe you were on the two tables I was playing so you saw the level of play and may have even remembered this player playing 98% of hands pre flop and seeing showdown about 88%? I generally respected your raises as I noticed you were multi-tabling and had amassed a huge amount of league points for 2p/4p. Is there an argument for me playing DYM sit and gos to try and build my bankroll as well? I find that PLO and NLH DYMs are pretty easy to win if JohnConnor isn't on the table.
Posted by acemachine

DYMs are a less volatile way to build a bankroll than cash tables. also when playing cash dont forget your not glued to the seat if youve built a nice stack get up and bank some,if some idiots calling every raise make a decision on wether to take him on  and risk the bad beats. make notes on everyone you sit down with and dont sit down with those who have your measure or more importantly cause you to tilt.
and as stated above NEVER go after a player for revenge its a sure fire way to blow your role

TINTIN

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting : Thanks Pilgrim, I think sometimes when things like this happen, i tend to go on a rampage to try and felt the person that did it to me. Especially when losing a set of 10s to runner runner straight. Do you have any tips on dealing with bad beats, etc? Also, would playing on 4-6 tables instead of just the two be an idea? I would have thought that would even out thte variance?
Posted by acemachine

1. not a great idea as you get sucked into trying to bust them with any 2. usually ends up bad. you need to try n keep a level head and its not the easiest when they start spewing money to everyone else

2. increasing tables is ok but you need to remember you are exposed to more bad beats also. evening out the varience across more tables is a longer term thing not a quick fix. when the "15 minutes of doom" strikes it will hit you on all tables so be prepared to drop 3-6 buyins quickly

devonfish5

hi acemachine,
it can be tough some days,
you do deffo get all-sorts @ 2/4p level.
bad beats do happen very regularly,
trust me,i know.
u just have to except it when it does happen,
and hope that your good play out-ways these in the long run.

don,t make the game personel towards any player,
u really can get into trouble as tintin says.
as a matter of interest,
y/day i lost £9.57 playing 2 tables @ 2/4p in the afternoon,
had like yourself some really awfull bad beats.
had a little think about what to do nxt...
came back in the evening,loaded up 4 tables,won £11.70

so it really can be so up & down.

best wishes

devon

Spikelad

Hi acemachine, i have recently started playing cash at nl4,been playing for about three weeks now.I have seen this type of play that you describe and it can be so frustrating when you get your money in good and then get sucked out on.

However the advice given by the guys is correct and you have to look longterm in this game(i know it can be difficult after a badbeat) but you can overcome this if you play correctly.

All the best

acemachine

Wow, thanks for the huge response guys. I actually had a really goof session today, bought in to 6 tables for £2 each and cashed out once I reached £5 (waited an orbit before I left for respect to some players that were actually playing well) then put £2 on another table. I managed to profit £20 from this! I even dodged my usual bad beats like all in on flop with kings vs 8 7 on an 8 high board, usually seems to turn into to pair. I also hit a straight flush against an ace high flush for a £2 profit, which was nice. I will learn not to chase players and respect all of them, good or bad. At the end of the day, they put the money in the middle, so they're entitled to dish out some beats once in a while.

Thanks again guys, you've been a great help. Hope to be on the forum a lot more with some positive news and even contribute to the poker clinic and other sections.

James.

acemachine

At the end of the day, they put the money in the middle, so they're entitled to dish out some beats once in a while. 

...provided i profit over the session.

rancid

Sit with £4, you win more

acemachine

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

Sit with £4, you win more
Posted by rancid

I will be very soon Rancid, just need to keep up the constant profit and once its up to £100, I'll withdraw £20 and use the 80 for 6-max 2p/4p cash. Also, I considered going to 4p/8p after i reach this target and play with half a max buy-in (presumably £4) is it more profitable to play at 2p/4p with £4 or 4p/8p with £4? I guess you'd get more cash for points and league points, but are there any negatives?

Dudeskin8

In general I would NEVER suggest willingly shortstacking espeically micro limits where you mainly make money from your big hands so e.g. you 3bet pre w/AA get Q high flop and get it in against KQ, you can ony win say 50bbs (if other guy has full stack) as opposed to 100bbs which is gonna limit your profit longterm big time. 

Although as a disclaimer Rancid will come on now and say it's a great strategy lol

TINTIN

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting : I will be very soon Rancid, just need to keep up the constant profit and once its up to £100, I'll withdraw £20 and use the 80 for 6-max 2p/4p cash. Also, I considered going to 4p/8p after i reach this target and play with half a max buy-in (presumably £4) is it more profitable to play at 2p/4p with £4 or 4p/8p with £4? I guess you'd get more cash for points and league points, but are there any negatives?
Posted by acemachine

this is incorrect. for the c4p you earn them at same rate upto n including 5p/10p and for league points its still the same up to n including 15p/30p.

i would always go the max buyin at the lower level rather than half stacking at the above especially if you dont have much of a bankroll to begin with.

also another thing to note when making your decision is the volume of tables at 4/8. this is significantly lower and during the day it is not uncommon to only see 3 or 4 tables running. i had a look at the lobby before posting this and was suprised to see around a dozen tables running at 4/8 which personally is the most ive seen running compared to 30+ at 2/4

rancid

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

In general I would NEVER suggest willingly shortstacking espeically micro limits where you mainly make money from your big hands so e.g. you 3bet pre w/AA get Q high flop and get it in against KQ, you can ony win say 50bbs (if other guy has full stack) as opposed to 100bbs which is gonna limit your profit longterm big time.  Although as a disclaimer Rancid will come on now and say it's a great strategy lol
Posted by Dudeskin8

Never short stack at micros, NL20+ only )
big hand, big bet, win more

No need to wait till £100, if you just want to grind NL4 and make a little money and not move up then wait till you get to £160 - then grind from there imo

unknown_username

Remember these tables are for beginners to learn and for smaller bank rolls so you do get alot of strange decisions - we all learn somewhere.

My advice is bet big when your ahead, over a length of time you will profit. You want players with K 2 to call your AA as over time you will win 75% of those hands (just made up that %). Also you will go through times when it seems the world, software, sky hates you - play your good hands very strong and over time you will win.

acemachine

Hey guys, in less than a week since i came back to sky, I have turned my £20 deposit into £57.99. Considering some of the bad beats that I have encoutnered in this period, i would count this achievement as quite significant and the most consistent profit I have made playing poker on any site in any period of time. Lets hope I don't go on an Isildur1esque downswing! Thanks for your advice!

James.

Spikelad

Hi Ace well done mate keep on doing what you are doing and dont let the bad beats get to you.

tregesea31

I have been playing dym s for the last 6 months and play what I think is a reasonable style of wait early on to conserve my chips. Then when blinds get big enuff either shove in position or shove any pair if first in pot or any ace if first in pot. The only problem I have got is I keep getting outdrawn after 6 months of this bull I really want to give up as can t stand the bad players getting rewarded all the time. Just lost 5 in a row. Hands I lost with were qq/ak/ak/1010/88 Really cannot see how anyone can make money at this. Went in ahead each time. Please help someone my sanity is at stake.

acemachine

In Response to Re: 2p/4p - Doing nothing wrong, yet still incapable of profiting:

I have been playing dym s for the last 6 months and play what I think is a reasonable style of wait early on to conserve my chips. Then when blinds get big enuff either shove in position or shove any pair if first in pot or any ace if first in pot. The only problem I have got is I keep getting outdrawn after 6 months of this bull I really want to give up as can t stand the bad players getting rewarded all the time. Just lost 5 in a row. Hands I lost with were qq/ak/ak/1010/88 Really cannot see how anyone can make money at this. Went in ahead each time. Please help someone my sanity is at stake.
Posted by tregesea31

Well I personally would say that AK, 10s and 8s are easily beat. There are two overs to queens as well. I wouldn't necessarily shove once you've got those kinds of hands unless you have around 20 or less big blinds. Hands like KQ, AJ, AQ, KJ, A 10 and maybe even QJ are all hands I'd probably consider playing even in the early stages in the DYM. If you play too tight, you will be blinded away and probably get multiple callers if you shove with 10 or less BBs, depending on what stake you play. Play tight, but not too tight. If someone shove or re-raises when you have those kinds of hands though, i'd fold fairly easily (except AQ, my favourite hand ).

I wouldn't shove any pair, because if you shove with 22 and 88 shows up, you're going to need a miracle. I'm not the Oracle of DYMs though, so don't take my word as gospel. I'm sure others will help you out.