Odd Levelling spot w JJ 140bbs approaching FT of 8k guarentee. Not sure on this, feels like too much

AMYBR

As played I snapcall.

I would prob just 3bet and call it off v UTG or btn if he shoves, but that may be bad, also depends who btn is likely to view your 3bet range

AMYBR

Kind of put myself in a weird spot in this hand.  There were quite a few elements so will lay it out as best I can.  Does seem mostly un-neccessary to me after the fact, but line check would be interesting

Last 22 of 8k guarentee.  Place money is juicy but had been sat deep from out of the gates and was looking to win this one or be top 3 at least.  Table has been really tight, been picking up alot of pots in LP w/out showdown.

I have around 280k @ 1k/2k.  Most anyone on table has is 160kish.  Pretty active player who I have notes on has arrived with 210k who has 4xd all of his opening range.  Has reshoved fairly light on two shorties A9 and QJ.  His play at table, matches his standard of my current notes.

So.... 

UTG (stack 32k) mins.  Has been uber passive.  He has a huge hand, this is his spot.

UTG+2 (150k) tank flats.

I find JJ in the cut off.  I am unlikely to be a head of UTG's range.  UTG+2 is a bit of a mystery to me here, but  will take a flop IP vs both.  Sigh c/fing alot of the time.  Normally I wouldnt be doing this, but have been picking up a lot of pots uncontested w/out showdown.  Am not wanting to create a large pot here.

Active aggro player is immediately on my left on the button.  Notes are that he likes to get aggro in these spots.  He ships his 105bb's very quickly. 

UTG tank hollywood calls, giving me time to decide that if UTG+2 folds I will call.  My advantage here is likely to be negligble.  Easily two overs.  But would be quite happy to take this down, becoming Tchip leader if taking perceived flip and holding.  Feel strongly am losing to UTG, but his stack is marginal.  Wont get involved if UTG+2 comes along, but will take on the other large stack.  Still retaining 35bb playing/re-shoving stack if losing hand.

Am probably waffling abit.

Over levelled?  Simple snap call?  Or get out of the way regardless and keep healthy stack, maintaing nip and tuck approach?

UTG KK        16bb's
UTG+2 fold   75bbs
Hero JJ        140 bbs
Button A10o 105 bbs

IDONKCALLU

if ya find yaself in a tricky spot and u think u have an edge on the table just fold if u confident in ya own ability y would ya need to play this seems like  a uncomftable spot for me id fold 

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Odd Levelling spot w JJ 140bbs approaching FT of 8k guarentee. Not sure on this, feels like too much gamble/spew. Thoughts guys?:

As played I snapcall. I would prob just 3bet and call it off v UTG or btn if he shoves, but that may be bad, also depends who btn is likely to view your 3bet range
Posted by grantorino

Yeah this was my sticking point in the hand.  To 3bet pre or not.  I dont think I'm ever going to like anything UTG shows up with, he is very likely crushing me, super tight super passive.  Def minning to get it in strong.  Without UTG+2 getting him self involved I'm almost certain I turn J's into 8's< and fold vs his range.

If I 3bet, UTG def 4 bet shoves (4k min, i'd likely make it 10.5ish, he'd reshove the 34ktotal, UTG stationer is very much an unknown quantity). 

However, button loses all interest in the hand I have to feel facing the action and his perception of FE. 

Csn only 3bet to get it in which in this spot I wasnt prepared to, as initial riser is highly likely to have us in a world of hurt.  Pointless isolation.  But then it evolved.  Obv dry board with river A aggro player scooping whole pot

YOUNG_GUN

less on thread title please Bankroll! 

AMYBR

Been a while moobs

pod1

put it down i guess

rancid

Is button so not aware of the min raise UTG, is btn that silly aggro ?
Depends how capable btn is, UTG+2 may flat the 3 bet this deep - again depends but probably folding if only flatting

3 bet ip first time around />calling

if you flat you want btn to do this aggro shove, which btw does nothing

call because thats how you played it and you can't give credit to btn because why would you play premium hand this bad :S

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Odd Levelling spot w JJ 140bbs approaching FT of 8k guarentee. Not sure on this, feels like too much gamble/spew. Thoughts guys?:

Is button so not aware of the min raise UTG, is btn that silly aggro ? Has Only been at table perhaps 15 hands.  Depends how capable btn is, UTG+2 may flat the 3 bet this deep It wont be a 3bet, it will be a 4 bet xhove for 16bbs from the UTG minner, that I'm not calling.  - again depends but probably folding if only flatting 3 bet ip first time around />calling if you flat you want btn to do this aggro shove, which btw does nothing call because thats how you played it and you can't give credit to btn because why would you play premium hand this bad :S  Given that all information at hand says UTG is crushing us 3betting makes no sense.
Posted by rancid

rancid

Really don’t understand what your saying )

 

UTG min raises with 16bb, your calling the shove all day with jacks when it comes back around

 

 

UTG+2 only flats initial open, your not worried about him but you may get some value from this oppo by 3 betting, if oppo is flatting min opens

By calling your set mining verus UTG+2 or inducing aggro behind

 

If you 3 bet then you can fold to a 4 bet shove from btn, as btn must be beating JJ -

But if you flat, why are you flatting ? To get a shove from btn or for UTG+2 to flat UTG shove and now you shove

 

What does fatting achieve versus UTG+2

 

If you flat, then you should snap btn shove

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Odd Levelling spot w JJ 140bbs approaching FT of 8k guarentee. Not sure on this, feels like too much gamble/spew. Thoughts guys?:

Really don’t understand what your saying )   UTG min raises with 16bb, your calling the shove all day with jacks when it comes back around.  Not in this specific situation, no.    UTG+2 only flats initial open, your not worried about him but you may get some value from this oppo by 3 betting, Again, no.  When we 3bet UTG always shoves.  If UTG+2 reshoves or flats, its a fold in any case. if oppo is flatting min opens By calling your set mining verus UTG+2 or inducing aggro behind  Yes. If you 3 bet then you can fold to a 4 bet shove from btn, Utterly counter inuitive given notes reads.  3betting a short stack dominated, or 3bet folding vs large stacks much looser range.as btn must be beating JJ.  Not at all, virtually always going to be a lighish squeeze. - But if you flat, why are you flatting ? To get a shove from btn or for UTG+2 to flat UTG shove and now you shove   What does fatting achieve versus UTG+2   If you flat, then you should snap btn shove.  I agree, that was the point of the discussion.
Posted by rancid

rancid

sounds like you got it sussed then )

flatting and only calling btn shove, folding to anything else

but if btn flats behind or folds
Kinda putting all your money on btn being aggro in this spot, which is ok but like what GT said - depends how btn sees your 3 betting range

Plus min raise UTG could be anyting these days ) still think 3 betting /> calling
Happy caling off JJ this deep to UTG

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Odd Levelling spot w JJ 140bbs approaching FT of 8k guarentee. Not sure on this, feels like too much gamble/spew. Thoughts guys?:

sounds like you got it sussed then ) flatting and only calling btn shove, folding to anything else but if btn flats behind or folds Kinda putting all your money on btn being aggro in this spot, which is ok but like what GT said - depends how btn sees your 3 betting range.  Think was combination of having edge over the table and not wanting to build a big pot with J's.  If button got aggro was a bonus, but am basically playing hand IP post flop vs UTG+2. Plus min raise UTG could be anyting these days ) still think 3 betting /> calling Happy caling off JJ this deep to UTG.  Normally Id have to agree with you, just had such a strong read in this spot, guy hadnt played a hand in forever, when had been was super passive.  Minning UTG shallow from him was only ever going to be strength, holding KK as seen
Posted by rancid

Always enjoy the banter rancid

AMYBR

LOL_RAISE:

Would you mind giving an opinion on this hand please?  Just for arguments sake can we take it for 100% granted UTG has overpair (which he did)