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River Decision - The board has got funky and we have two pots to play for.

edited February 2012 in The Poker Clinic
We've at the action table, getting plenty of action.  Villian 1 has been playing close to maniac level this session, been at the table for a couple of hours but my focus has been on a few larger games I also have running, not played him before.  Villian 2 is 1/4 of Team Awesome.  My papy always told me never to fold a full house, but can I be ahead enough here for this to be profitable?  Fold, call or shove for the change please?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
LUCKYSAMMI Small blind  £0.50 £0.50 £35.16
shopmate29 Big blind  £0.50 £1.00 £7.50
 Your hole cards
  • 2
  • 2
   
V2 Raise  £1.50 £2.50 £51.84
V1 Raise  £3.00 £5.50 £187.43
TommyD Call  £3.00 £8.50 £246.93
LUCKYSAMMI Fold     
shopmate29 Fold     
V2Call  £1.50 £10.00 £50.34
Flop
  
  • 2
  • J
  • K
   
V2 Check     
V1 Check     
TommyD Bet  £7.50 £17.50 £239.43
V2Call  £7.50 £25.00 £42.84
V1 Call  £7.50 £32.50 £179.93
Turn
v 
  • Q
   
v2 Check     
v1 Check     
TommyD Bet  £23.00 £55.50 £216.43
v2 All-in  £42.84 £98.34 £0.00
v1 Call  £42.84 £141.18 £137.09
TommyD Call  £19.84 £161.02 £196.59
River
  
  • Q
   
v1 Bet  £49.00 £210.02 £88.09
TommyD     
  
   
  
   
  
   
      

Comments

  • edited February 2012
    Looks alot like V1 has J's/K's huh.  c/c flop, c/c bet and raise action on turn to ship into river no pot....

    Goes back to his weird click back pre for me.

    Just depends what you mean by V1 is maniac.

    So ugly lol.  Only beating A10/910/KJ + AQ.  I likely convince myelf of one of those hands and sigh call tho.   Surprised you didnt just re ship turn? EDIT: I see that we cant.
  • edited February 2012
    i would call he could be doing this with ace 10 any str8 i think its a profitable call long term 
  • edited February 2012
    I've seen your play a fair bit on the tellybox, so I have alot of respect for your game... but...

    Why call the 3-bet pre-flop? Do you have a specific reason to think that the opener won't be 4-betting? Otherwise, surely you must be afraid that you won't see the flop, since you can't close the action here...

    Anyway, the river is a toughie, isn't it? You are now beating the straight but the bet into the dry side-pot could be massive strength and you're playing the low-house. Obviously it looks a bit like a blocker bet, though. The play would indicate to me that at least one of them is playing two high cards, and that would surely mean that one of them has the house. On that basis I view the main pot as lost and let this river bet fold me out... beyond that... cry, probably.

    If you get it wrong you can always comfort yourself with the phrase: "I knew I should have called/folded"... I always find that helpful.
  • edited February 2012
    By "two high cards" I'm including JJ,KK, and QQ, particularly in V1's range as the pre-flop 3-better. His play post-flop fits those hands very well, too.
  • edited February 2012

    Well I'm never folding. 
    It's a very thin shove, but quite possibly ok if he is truly manic.

    Calling is fine against most opponents though.
  • edited February 2012
    I would never fold due to pot odds, it would be a crying call though. I would assume his two pr has housed up on river.
  • edited February 2012
  • edited February 2012
    call

    very thin shove as said above

    river lead is KQ,QJ or blocker with straight
    sizing looks like blocker but maybe it's meant to look like that :S
    If you shove river, surely v1 folds straights anyway dude - only calls with better yada yada )
  • edited February 2012
    turn sizing is kinda bad because of stacksizes, bet £2 smaller and you can reopen the bettng.
    think id flat river
  • edited February 2012
    i am never ever shoving river u are only getting called by hands that beat u imo just flat call the river its never a fold tho i think its a profitable call longterm 
  • edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: River Decision - The board has got funky and we have two pots to play for.:
    turn sizing is kinda bad because of stacksizes, bet £2 smaller and you can reopen the bettng. think id flat river
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    This
  • edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: River Decision - The board has got funky and we have two pots to play for.:
    turn sizing is kinda bad because of stacksizes, bet £2 smaller and you can reopen the bettng. think id flat river
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    Totally agree.  I was button clicking to be honest.  Wasn't really paying attention to the hand until the betting came back to me on the turn after the shove.  Up until then it was mine set, get set, get money in as I saw Vil 1 was pretty loose and slightly crazy.
  • edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: River Decision - The board has got funky and we have two pots to play for.:
    I've seen your play a fair bit on the tellybox, so I have alot of respect for your game... but... Why call the 3-bet pre-flop? Do you have a specific reason to think that the opener won't be 4-betting? Otherwise, surely you must be afraid that you won't see the flop, since you can't close the action here... Anyway, the river is a toughie, isn't it? You are now beating the straight but the bet into the dry side-pot could be massive strength and you're playing the low-house. Obviously it looks a bit like a blocker bet, though. The play would indicate to me that at least one of them is playing two high cards, and that would surely mean that one of them has the house. On that basis I view the main pot as lost and let this river bet fold me out... beyond that... cry, probably. If you get it wrong you can always comfort yourself with the phrase: "I knew I should have called/folded"... I always find that helpful.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    Good points.  It's risk reward.  Vil 1 and I are massively deep and I see him as paying me off close to full if I hit and he gets a piece.  Vil 2 is less likely to 4 bet without a pretty narrow range IMO in this spot.
  • edited February 2012
    Fair enough on the pre-flop play. I play mostly Sng and MTT's so not used to being deep enough to make this call...

    The general feeling is looking like a call on the river. I just can't see that, the way the play has gone, we have much chance of winning the main pot. There seem like more houses in the range of the two opponents, than straights or KJ. If you take that away, you're being charged £49 to win £49 with the bottom house. Really tough spot, obviously, but I still go with the fold. Though the only advice I'm totally confident in is the part about crying, so stick with that ftw. :)
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