this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp

IRISHROVER

 has any1 advice my heads up play is very very poor.

namesb0nd

sounds like your doing alright if you got to heads up 4 times

Aski

In Response to this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

 has any1 advice my heads up play is very very poor.
Posted by IRISHROVER

I guess the question that needs to be asked here is why do you think your heads up play is poor.

Whilst I appreciate that you've said you've lost 4 heads up in a row, what were the circumstances of these losses.

what were the stack sizes at the start of heads up, and what were they when it came to the hand that knocked you out.

Do you feel that you are playing to tight, and thus leaking chips, and thus when you push at the end, the other player has the odds to call no matter what his hole cards are.

Alternatively are you playing too aggressive early on and losing a lot of showdowns, giving your opponent the momentum. Given that its deep stack, I'm guessing that you still have a decent stack in relation to the blinds, so are you taking each hand to the showdown, or are you folding your weaker hands to re raises.

As a rule of thumb if you feel that you are being outplayed heads up, then you would be pre flop favourite with any of the following hands (52% fav)

Any pair down to pocket 3's
any ace
any suited king, any suited queen down to Q 5, Jacks suited to Jack 8, and 10 9 suited
any unsuited king down to K 4, any queen down to queen 8, together with jack 10 and jack 9

heads up suited cards make little difference, whilst holding a ace or a king  and you are more than likely a 55% fav.

Thus pre flop if you are the first to act or your opponent has limped look to play any pair, any ace, or king and any 2 paint cards aggresively, with the occasional call or limp.
Play the other hands less aggressively with say maybe equal calls and raises.
Other hands not mentioned above then look to limp or check with the occasional raise. With these hands always call in the SB, in the BB you can fold the weakest hands if you have faced a substantial raise.


If you are the short stack then look to play the above mentioned hands slightly more aggressively, or if you the large stack and the short stack is pushing at you, then look to limp more in the small blind and push back when you feel the situation is right, ie I limp and then push back against any BB raise with any pair, any ace or king and any 2 paint cards.

It may be useful if you could post a series of heads up hands, so that we can see if you are doing anything wrong, as obviously it is difficult to provide specific advice without knowing the situation. Also try reading volume 2 of Harrington on Hold em, as I find his heads up section quite useful, and this may be able to give you some ideas, that you can adopt to your own style. Also try playing some heads up only tournys, so that you can get some more experience of being in that situation.

oynutter

hi rover---played you heads up a few times and i think you are perhaps a bit too cautious with marginal hands, you are also openly aggressive with good hands, which makes you sometimes easier to read than a lot of heads up players. If your opponent is aggressive, then you can afford to slow play a few big hands, and be aggressive with marginals. If you can surprise him a few times at showdown, then he will have to slow down a bit, even if you lose some chips, he won't know what to make of you, re-raise with air once or twice, getting caught out is actually good news because you are much more likely to get paid big when you have the goods, also, when the blinds are big, bluff a few more pre-flop pots with a raise --If you can raise with 8-9, get called, and win the pot at showdown, he sees what you raised with and is then much more likely to call when you raise with a whoppa---keep em guessing is the key really mate, and don't forget to change gear immediately you get heads up, so as not to give him the initial advantage, if he gets the impression you're too soft, then he will take you off too many pots.---hope this helps, give em some welly mate !!---gl next time

pdavo100

does anyone else miss the days when the 8.15pm deepstack was a guaranteed? when I 1st started playing it there were 35 -45 runners,the other night there was 7!. I know there is the 7.15 d/s but due to  my work I can't always catch it.

Talon

    My only knowledge of heads up play is that aggression is the key, but you must draw the line at being too aggressive.
 It is a tough skill to master and i have not done it enough to get close to mastering it.  If you need to practice to get better at it then i suggest playing a few heads up STTs. This will allow you to work out the skills required whilst both players have a playable stack.
  Hope this helps

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

    My only knowledge of heads up play is that aggression is the key, but you must draw the line at being too aggressive.  It is a tough skill to master and i have not done it enough to get close to mastering it.  If you need to practice to get better at it then i suggest playing a few heads up STTs. This will allow you to work out the skills required whilst both players have a playable stack.   Hope this helps
Posted by Talon

Practice, Practice, Practice but isn't that always the way. The site have lots of different types of game and as a tournament player it may be an idea to view these as a training ground. If you want to specialise in MTT's then there's a few games around to help. Try the single table sit n go's for final table experiance or the heads up sit n go's to practice that. Keep the buy ins low as your playing them for experiance rather than profit and try different things out on them.

As far as methods of playing Heads up go then i can't say im an expert but i tend to play any 2 and look for signs of weakness. i try and control the pot sizes and raise not just your good hands but poor starting cards aswell. In order to get you good hands paid they have to beleive your capable of pulling the raise with bad hands, use your position and other than that it can be a bit of a craps shoot as seen in Webbys post the other day.

He got it in good with A Q against K Q and the guy hits!! what can you do other than accept that's poker and buy in to another lol

Be unpridictable but be able to get away from the raises you have made when your Light in the good card department

Good Luck

ACESOVER8s

I didn't mean the above post to be a reply to Talons and don't know why i put it as one lol

innit

In Response to this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

 has any1 advice my heads up play is very very poor.
Posted by IRISHROVER

my best advice is play me im no good aleast one of us will win   always push at wrong time they must read me like a book

nirvana29

it can be really, really, really frustrating, me, i tend to usually push and raise alot, say moving all in with any pocket pair, any 2 face cards, but it is alot about luck in a head up, which is annoying when its the most important part of the game.

scrumdown

dont  be  bullied  irish  rover  think  your  weak  they  will take  your  chips all  day   long   cant  wait  for  the     top  ten  hands  any  two   cards  are  live   

TENOFSPADE

hi irish rover,there are plenty of low stakes heads up games on the site ,may be u could give those try for a while ,until u can find something ur comfortable with ,and get 2 grips with the aggressive heads up play ,just a thought .........gl ten

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

sounds like your doing alright if you got to heads up 4 times
Posted by namesb0nd

 ty

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

In Response to this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp : I guess the question that needs to be asked here is why do you think your heads up play is poor. Whilst I appreciate that you've said you've lost 4 heads up in a row, what were the circumstances of these losses. what were the stack sizes at the start of heads up, and what were they when it came to the hand that knocked you out. Do you feel that you are playing to tight, and thus leaking chips, and thus when you push at the end, the other player has the odds to call no matter what his hole cards are. Alternatively are you playing too aggressive early on and losing a lot of showdowns, giving your opponent the momentum. Given that its deep stack, I'm guessing that you still have a decent stack in relation to the blinds, so are you taking each hand to the showdown, or are you folding your weaker hands to re raises. As a rule of thumb if you feel that you are being outplayed heads up, then you would be pre flop favourite with any of the following hands (52% fav) Any pair down to pocket 3's any ace any suited king, any suited queen down to Q 5, Jacks suited to Jack 8, and 10 9 suited any unsuited king down to K 4, any queen down to queen 8, together with jack 10 and jack 9 heads up suited cards make little difference, whilst holding a ace or a king  and you are more than likely a 55% fav. Thus pre flop if you are the first to act or your opponent has limped look to play any pair, any ace, or king and any 2 paint cards aggresively, with the occasional call or limp. Play the other hands less aggressively with say maybe equal calls and raises. Other hands not mentioned above then look to limp or check with the occasional raise. With these hands always call in the SB, in the BB you can fold the weakest hands if you have faced a substantial raise. If you are the short stack then look to play the above mentioned hands slightly more aggressively, or if you the large stack and the short stack is pushing at you, then look to limp more in the small blind and push back when you feel the situation is right, ie I limp and then push back against any BB raise with any pair, any ace or king and any 2 paint cards. It may be useful if you could post a series of heads up hands, so that we can see if you are doing anything wrong, as obviously it is difficult to provide specific advice without knowing the situation. Also try reading volume 2 of Harrington on Hold em, as I find his heads up section quite useful, and this may be able to give you some ideas, that you can adopt to your own style. Also try playing some heads up only tournys, so that you can get some more experience of being in that situation.
Posted by Aski

ty for advice

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

hi rover---played you heads up a few times and i think you are perhaps a bit too cautious with marginal hands, you are also openly aggressive with good hands, which makes you sometimes easier to read than a lot of heads up players. If your opponent is aggressive, then you can afford to slow play a few big hands, and be aggressive with marginals. If you can surprise him a few times at showdown, then he will have to slow down a bit, even if you lose some chips, he won't know what to make of you, re-raise with air once or twice, getting caught out is actually good news because you are much more likely to get paid big when you have the goods, also, when the blinds are big, bluff a few more pre-flop pots with a raise --If you can raise with 8-9, get called, and win the pot at showdown, he sees what you raised with and is then much more likely to call when you raise with a whoppa---keep em guessing is the key really mate, and don't forget to change gear immediately you get heads up, so as not to give him the initial advantage, if he gets the impression you're too soft, then he will take you off too many pots.---hope this helps, give em some welly mate !!---gl next time
Posted by oynutter

u nutterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr u

i get uuuuuuuuuu for this

lol see u on the ft m8y

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

does anyone else miss the days when the 8.15pm deepstack was a guaranteed? when I 1st started playing it there were 35 -45 runners,the other night there was 7!. I know there is the 7.15 d/s but due to  my work I can't always catch it.
Posted by pdavo100

  hi dav i sent u a pm on this check your messages

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

    My only knowledge of heads up play is that aggression is the key, but you must draw the line at being too aggressive.  It is a tough skill to master and i have not done it enough to get close to mastering it.  If you need to practice to get better at it then i suggest playing a few heads up STTs. This will allow you to work out the skills required whilst both players have a playable stack.   Hope this helps
Posted by Talon

ty talon for advice

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

I didn't mean the above post to be a reply to Talons and don't know why i put it as one lol
Posted by ACESOVER8s

lol np ty

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

In Response to this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp : my best advice is play me im no good aleast one of us will win   always push at wrong time they must read me like a book
Posted by innit

 ok will do lol

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

it can be really, really, really frustrating, me, i tend to usually push and raise alot, say moving all in with any pocket pair, any 2 face cards, but it is alot about luck in a head up, which is annoying when its the most important part of the game.
Posted by nirvana29

now thats exactly my feeling, it hurts bad after going so far 2 fall on the last fence .

Urdadi

What I have been told is to mix it up and don't be bullied. All cards are live at this stage.

Try some of the low costs heads up games for practice.

End of the day, console yourself with fact that you are in the money and walking away knowing that is now 4 final tables. Thats what I do and after a couple of days of playing over my hands again in my head, I actually believe that bit of advice. ;-0

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

dont  be  bullied  irish  rover  think  your  weak  they  will take  your  chips all  day   long   cant  wait  for  the     top  ten  hands  any  two   cards  are  live   
Posted by scrumdown

ty for advice

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

hi irish rover,there are plenty of low stakes heads up games on the site ,may be u could give those try for a while ,until u can find something ur comfortable with ,and get 2 grips with the aggressive heads up play ,just a thought .........gl ten
Posted by TENOFSPADE

ty ten will do that

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

What I have been told is to mix it up and don't be bullied. All cards are live at this stage. Try some of the low costs heads up games for practice. End of the day, console yourself with fact that you are in the money and walking away knowing that is now 4 final tables. Thats what I do and after a couple of days of playing over my hands again in my head, I actually believe that bit of advice. ;-0
Posted by Urdadi

lol it was 4 heads up in a row  which you are right,

  i cashed and made profit in all 4 but just like to find that little bit extra ,

just missing the final link ,

but that advice is great ty

phil12uk

Rover - play some heads up games on the sng strand.  Vary ur buy ins and the types of heads up - slow style games to turbo games. That way u will get more experience for all situations.

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

Rover - play some heads up games on the sng strand.  Vary ur buy ins and the types of heads up - slow style games to turbo games. That way u will get more experience for all situations.
Posted by phil12uk

 ty phil but da mn got 2nd again in deepstack but out of 21 should i dare complain

KnackersYa

One bit of advice that I got was to play big pot poker against someone who you perceive to be a better player than you and to keep the pots small against a worse player. Anyway, just getting to four heads ups is a cracking achievement in itself.

LadyFingrs

losing 4 HU's in a row is not a big enough sample size to determine how well you're playing.

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

One bit of advice that I got was to play big pot poker against someone who you perceive to be a better player than you and to keep the pots small against a worse player. Anyway, just getting to four heads ups is a cracking achievement in itself.
Posted by KnackersYa

 ty for advice

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: this is getting silly now i just lost my 4th heads up in a row in the deepstack, helppppppppppppppp:

losing 4 HU's in a row is not a big enough sample size to determine how well you're playing.
Posted by LadyFingrs

 well five now i may be going for a sky record lol

IRISHROVER

after my six attempt heads up i finally won  in the 8.15 deepstack tonite ,


so just like to thank all the posters on this thread ,