Think I played this all wrong

sillymid

We both had lots of outs but neither of us hit any of them.

Should I have been less aggressive and lost fewer chips or more aggressive and try to push him off the pot but risk running into a bigger hand? Any advice please.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
upagear	Small blind		30.00	30.00	3390.00
Samsociety	Big blind		60.00	90.00	638.75
	Your hole cards	K J
TopFlush	Fold
sillymid	Raise		120.00	210.00	2040.00
kocklaw	Call		120.00	330.00	3550.00
church04	Call		120.00	450.00	1595.00
upagear	Fold
Samsociety	Fold
Flop
		Q 8 10
sillymid	Bet		337.50	787.50	1702.50
kocklaw	Fold
church04	Call		337.50	1125.00	1257.50
Turn
		6
sillymid	Bet		240.00	1365.00	1462.50
church04	Call		240.00	1605.00	1017.50
River
		3
sillymid	Check
church04	Check
sillymid	Show	K J
church04	Show	A 9
church04	Win	Ace high	1605.00		2622.50

Dudeskin8

I'd probably just shove turn.

sillymid

In Response to Re: Think I played this all wrong:

I'd probably just shove turn.
Posted by Dudeskin8

OK. But so early in the tournament?

Dudeskin8

Well it's either a shove or check imo, betting 21% of pot doesn't really achieve anything espeically against a shortstack.

You still have pretty big draw and could always make the guy fold which is good for you.

EvilPingu

I don't understand why you've bet 375 on the flop, then bet less on the turn. That says several things to me:

1) You may not understand bet sizing - Why else would you bet 3/4 of the pot on the flop, then about 1/5th pot on the turn?

2) Turn bet is a blocker bet - You don't want opponent to raise and force you to fold, or commit you to the hand before you've seen a river card and tried to hit your draw. In which case, it's painfully obvious that it's a blocker bet, and a lot of players will just set you all in there, even if they've got 4 high. A blocker bet is a type of information bet, and by making a blocker bet here, you become very exploitable as players will just give you the wrong information (by going all in and representing strength, to try and make you fold).

3) You're not thinking ahead in the hand - You need to be thinking about what you're going to do on future streets all the time, whether you hit or miss. When you bet 375 on the flop, you should already have a good idea of what you're going to do, whether you hit or miss, on the turn. In both cases, I'd advocate just going all in. Your bet of 240 really looks to me like "I've not thought about what I'm going to do if I don't hit my draw on the turn and panicked." If I was your opponent there, I'd happily go all in with four high.

FWIW, you could realistically have up to 24 outs here, so you should never be doing anything other than shoving that turn IMO. 

As for the rest of the hand:

Pre-flop: I prefer a standard 3x raise this early in a tournament, although a min raise is better than a limp. Don't think the fact you've min raised here is the end of the world, really.

Flop: 3/4 pot is spot on, IMO, but only if you plan to go all in if re-raised, or shove any turn card, hit or miss.

River: As played, I don't really know if you can do anything else, other than check and fold to any bet.

jugglegeek

You made a mistake on the turn. Betting should always fall into two catagories. Value and bluffing. You are not value betting king-high on the turn so if you are going to bet it has to be a bet that can make your opponent fold better hands (like ace high with a club for example)

Your flop bet sets up perfectly for a shove since your opponent is then not getting the right price to call with just a draw. They may call with a queen and a club but the hand that he has then he has to fold. And if he calls then he has made a mistake and you have about 20 outs

devonfish5

i like the flop bet,
once you are called,
i figure i am prob behind,so,
odds,
8 for run
11 for flush(assuming j is good)
19 out =38%
x2=76%
2 choices imo,
as dude says shove turn is fine
or simply check and hope to see free card.
don,t make silly bets &waste chips as u did,
ok it,s only 240 but over time will add up.
don,t think u played it that bad though.
i personally don,t like to lose going out on a drawing hand,
even with 76% arguablly odds.
i,d rather pick a better hand than kj.
if u had folded straight away,then not a problem.
devon

jugglegeek

In Response to Re: Think I played this all wrong:

i like the flop bet, once you are called, i figure i am prob behind,so, odds, 8 for run 11 for flush(assuming j is good) 19 out =38% x2=76% 2 choices imo, as dude says shove turn is fine or simply check and hope to see free card. don,t make silly bets &waste chips as u did, ok it,s only 240 but over time will add up. don,t think u played it that bad though. i personally don,t like to lose going out on a drawing hand, even with 76% arguablly odds. i,d rather pick a better hand than kj. if u had folded straight away,then not a problem. devon
Posted by devonfish5

Think your maths is a bit out there devonfish. With one card to come you multiply the number of outs by two. On the flop he is 55.354% vs Ad9c and after the turn he drops to 34.091%

Interestingly against Ac9d we are a 27.172% dog on the flop and drop to 18.182% on the turn.

sillymid

Thank you for all your comments. This was exactly what I was looking for.

I do struggle with these sorts of hands where I hit some of the flop out of position.
I will need to study this for a bit and let it sink in.

Thanks again.