wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr

pod1

just changed to wifi last week and had nothin but problems. THE worst time for signal to drop out!!!

pandj	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£2.62
pod1	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£15.81
	Your hole cards	A J
cartster27	Fold
daveyt1987	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£3.78
Grave	Fold
fatwab	Call		£0.10	£0.35	£23.30
pandj	Call		£0.05	£0.40	£2.57
pod1	Check
Flop
		J A 3
pandj	Check
pod1	Bet		£0.30	£0.70	£15.51
daveyt1987	Call		£0.30	£1.00	£3.48
fatwab	Fold
pandj	Call		£0.30	£1.30	£2.27
Turn
		A
pandj	Check
pod1	Check
daveyt1987	Check
River
		7
pandj	Check
pod1	Bet		£1.30	£2.60	£14.21
daveyt1987	All-in		£3.48	£6.08	£0.00
pandj	Fold
pod1	Fold
daveyt1987	Muck
daveyt1987	Win		£3.60		£3.60
daveyt1987	Return		£2.18	£0.30	£5.78

YOUNG_GUN

Nit

I'd raise pre fwiw as u put it in lini ....

Dudeskin8

100% raise pre, can't think why you wouldn't.

Bet turn.

Snap call river normally obvz.

SUPERSNEDD

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr:

100% raise pre, can't think why you wouldn't. Bet turn. Snap call river normally obvz.
Posted by Dudeskin8

With no WIFI connection, snap calling the river isn't going to be the easiest move

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr:

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr : With no WIFI connection, snap calling the river isn't going to be the easiest move
Posted by SUPERSNEDD

Dats why I put 'normally'.....

Jameskr

dude, do you know how to login to your router settings? if so, go in there and change the wireless channel.. you will find one that doesn't drop out! pm me if you need help with it

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr:

dude, do you know how to login to your router settings? if so, go in there and change the wireless channel.. you will find one that doesn't drop out! pm me if you need help with it
Posted by Jameskr

Can u pm/help me please my internet connection is fine 90% but then sometimes picks up other wireless routers, is there anyway i can just lock soley on to my router? usually very inconveniant and have to reboot it for it too work properly. 

BorinLoner

I wouldn't raise pre-flop with AJ in the BB with three limpers. If you want to get rid of your opponents, you'd have to raise pretty big and if you get called by anyone other than the SB, you'll have to play a big pot, out of position with AJ. I would check pre-flop with the intention of check-folding on most flops. It's just not a hand I want to play out of position. If we do hit the flop big our hand is perfectly disguised too.

Why do I think that James is going to be getting alot of PM's from randomers asking "How do I get my wi-fi working properly?" lol

pod1

i am glad its not just me , raising aj out of pos is not the best thing to do. ps, pm on the way james :-)

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr:

I wouldn't raise pre-flop with AJ in the BB with three limpers. If you want to get rid of your opponents, you'd have to raise pretty big and if you get called by anyone other than the SB, you'll have to play a big pot, out of position with AJ. I would check pre-flop with the intention of check-folding on most flops. It's just not a hand I want to play out of position. If we do hit the flop big our hand is perfectly disguised too. Why do I think that James is going to be getting alot of PM's from randomers asking "How do I get my wi-fi working properly?" lol
Posted by BorinLoner

This feels super weak to me, AJ is a pretty string hand, they've shown wekaness by limping so it's just a standard raise for value imo, I can't imagine lolufold/scotty77 checking and 'hoping' to hit.

pod1

i didnt agree with the "check folding most flops" bit dude, yes they are weak and im not (ish), raising here is just seems a bit spewy. 

Dudeskin8

Rasing QJ would be spewy, AJ is just standard surely, still best wait till somone else posts to get a better idea.

pod1

whats wrong with raising with qj (20 se

HARI08	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£24.64
dario85	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£27.26
	Your hole cards	Q J
ribo	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£9.62
mmhmm	Call		£0.10	£0.35	£10.26
pod1	Raise		£0.30	£0.65	£21.84
HARI08	Fold
dario85	Call		£0.20	£0.85	£27.06
ribo	Call		£0.20	£1.05	£9.42
mmhmm	Call		£0.20	£1.25	£10.06
Flop
		K 9 J
dario85	Check
ribo	Check
mmhmm	Check
pod1	Bet		£0.63	£1.88	£21.21
dario85	Fold
ribo	Raise		£1.26	£3.14	£8.16
mmhmm	Fold
pod1	Call		£0.63	£3.77	£20.58
Turn
		7
ribo	Check
pod1	Check
River
		10
ribo	Check
pod1	Bet		£2.83	£6.60	£17.75
ribo	Call		£2.83	£9.43	£5.33
pod1	Show	Q J
ribo	Muck	A A
pod1	Win	Straight Flush to the King	£8.72		£26.47

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Ncs after you wrote that lol)

YOUNG_GUN

AJ you should be raising most of the time pre flop if your in bb, it depends on your table really.. 

but in this circumstance, open limp with 2 callers behind auto raise, for value its likely you have the best hand unless you have a note that the open limper only does this with bigger hands. 

By checking you give ppl a chance to go ahead, its likely ppl have called behind with suited connectors and your just making it cheap for them to outdraw you. AJ should be good so raise it up, possibly so u can narrow down to 1 opponent or two. 

IF someone open say 3 x then i dont mind a call or a 3 bet but with an open limp and callers behind im raising alot of the time

grantorino

Definitely raise pre. They will call lots with hands you dominate

bet turn

river kick cat

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BorinLoner

I don't like raising it pre-flop into 3 limpers simply because you'd have to make a really big raise to get it heads-up and sometimes that won't even work. What are you going to do when it goes call, call, call pre-flop and you have to play this hand out of position with an unmade hand? Position is enormously important with a hand like this... Position is enormously important with any hand but particularly a hand like this. I prefer to just not give myself the problem and wait for position when I'll get aggressive with a wider range of hands.

It's enough to say that I knew there would be people that would disagree about this when I posted. I don't like to say other people are wrong but I think it's so much more difficult to play this out of position and I don't like to make things difficult for myself. Play big pots in position and small pots out of position.

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr:

I don't like raising it pre-flop into 3 limpers simply because you'd have to make a really big raise to get it heads-up and sometimes that won't even work. What are you going to do when it goes call, call, call pre-flop and you have to play this hand out of position with an unmade hand? Position is enormously important with a hand like this... Position is enormously important with any hand but particularly a hand like this. I prefer to just not give myself the problem and wait for position when I'll get aggressive with a wider range of hands. It's enough to say that I knew there would be people that would disagree about this when I posted. I don't like to say other people are wrong but I think it's so much more difficult to play this out of position and I don't like to make things difficult for myself. Play big pots in position and small pots out of position.
Posted by BorinLoner

If you're getting that many callers simply start raising bigger till you get less, there's always a tipping point with most fish, some it's 5x, some 8x you should find that out yourself soon enough.

If you don't hit you simply make a cbet, some boards might be awful so you don't but any paint high flop is usually good to bet and then if they call, turn you could hit but if not can barrel if turn brings good card. 

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr:

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr : If you're getting that many callers simply start raising bigger till you get less, there's always a tipping point with most fish, some it's 5x, some 8x you should find that out yourself soon enough. If you don't hit you simply make a cbet, some boards might be awful so you don't but any paint high flop is usually good to bet and then if they call, turn you could hit but if not can barrel if turn brings good card. 
Posted by Dudeskin8

You see, this is what I'm getting at: When you want to get rid of some of those limpers, you start having to make really big raises. Playing AJ as though it's a premium hand, out of position, where we builld a big pot pre-flop just can't be profitable in the long term, surely? AJ just isn't that good. When we don't get those folds we have the problem of needing to c-bet into one, two or three players on the flop with an unmade hand on 2/3 flops and that c-bet is going to have to be pretty big - Even if we only get one call we have to c-bet at least 7BB (When we've made it 6x pre-flop). I just think we can check here and play a small pot. If we're on the button with AJ facing three limpers it's a very different situation but out of position it can't be good to play big pots with what is, at best, the seventh strongest starting hand.

Dudeskin8

If there's been a raise and a 3bet or even a single raise yes AJ drops in value but with 3 limps we have to assume we have the best hand and so make a raise for VALUE, anything other than raising is playing scared money imo.

Also if you check AJ are you doing the same with AK/AQ as they miss the flop 2/3 as well ?

BorinLoner

Well AK is the nut-no-pair hand, so no I can't check the AK. I think you're right, we probably do have the best hand with AJ but playing it for value is tricky because of our position. Even when we do have the best hand pre-flop we're unlikely to be a long way ahead, since AJ simply isn't all that big a favourite againt many hands. Moreover, knowing if we're ahead on any particular flop we've missed is nearly impossible since we won't see the other players' response to the flop before we act. Checking pre-flop isn't about playing scared money, it's about knowing how weak our position is and how difficult it could be to play the flop.

If we do make the raise, we're not really raising it for value since the ideal situation is for all the limpers to fold. When we raise here we're trying to represent a stronger hand than AJ and therefore it's more like a bluff. After all, if one of our opponents is holding 78 and they knew we were playing AJ, they'd want to call our raise. Even though they know they are behind, they would choose to take advantage of their position.

I can't emphasise enough how much importance position has. I just favour the more cautious option when playing in the BB. Raising certainly has it's advantages and, as I said, I can't tell people they're wrong. I just think that I'd rather make those raises when I have the advantage of position. It makes no difference if we take it down pre-flop but those times when we go to the flop, position will make everything so much easier.

YOUNG_GUN

Yes we are oop but have the best hand alot of the time so raise for valueeeeeeeeee

it maybe tricky to play post flop but when your ahead bet/raise have a plan, checking is terrible if someone has limped in with 67suited anf flop 67J, thats going to be more tricky! or even someone with 33 on 3AJ flop again checking is defo a awful option in my book here unless u have solid reads on the limpers that either of them are limping a monster.

rancid

Inflating the pot oop with these type of hands is not good long term imo

Even if you raise they will probably call anyway, which is what you want right :S
But if you are going to raise then make it big to iso, going multi way w/AJ oop is brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



checking here is np

SJspanky1

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr:

Yes we are oop but have the best hand alot of the time so raise for valueeeeeeeeee it maybe tricky to play post flop but when your ahead bet/raise have a plan, checking is terrible if someone has limped in with 67suited anf flop 67J, thats going to be more tricky! or even someone with 33 on 3AJ flop again checking is defo a awful option in my book here unless u have solid reads on the limpers that either of them are limping a monster.
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

An interesting debate. Can see the merits of both sides of this one. In a cash game such as hand posted are we not more likely to win a bigger pot by flatting/disguising hand strength and keeping people in with weaker hands if we hit? So many players limp Ace rag here.

Alternatively in a Tourney I'm happy to raise pre, continue bet most flops and get those blinds in the bank. Certainly an awkward to hand to play OOP on later streets when we miss flop though. We are prob up against small pprs and suited cons that may have us crushed or have massive draws by now. Be good to have some hands posted  featuring A10+ in BB and see how they played out.

pod1

i dont understand why i want to be raising 7x pre to try and get the amount of limpers off this hand, to me it makes no sense. as a rule i raise the same regardless of hand + 1bb per limper, im not in the habit of raising oop with aj period. a few posters have put down "ifs, buts and maybes" regarding potential flops and to be fair my line i take with this hand will depend on this. if i raise pre then i am obligated to carry on betting, again this makes no sense with a very high % of flops not helping me.

as been mentioned before this hand does play well with no alarm bells ringing from my limpers, any ace flop now looks good as a better ace would be raising, and i havnt shown any strength pre.

as for the argument for the  well players at nl300 wouldnt do this, well i totally agree because there wouldnt be those limpers before hand so we would almost never have the situation. when was the last time you saw limp limp limp on a nl300 table.

like has been mentioned before im sure there is no hard and fast rule for playing this pre and there are pros and cons for both actions, was just nice to see other peoples views.

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr:

i dont understand why i want to be raising 7x pre to try and get the amount of limpers off this hand, to me it makes no sense. as a rule i raise the same regardless of hand + 1bb per limper, im not in the habit of raising oop with aj period. a few posters have put down "ifs, buts and maybes" regarding potential flops and to be fair my line i take with this hand will depend on this. if i raise pre then i am obligated to carry on betting, again this makes no sense with a very high % of flops not helping me. as been mentioned before this hand does play well with no alarm bells ringing from my limpers, any ace flop now looks good as a better ace would be raising, and i havnt shown any strength pre. as for the argument for the  well players at nl300 wouldnt do this, well i totally agree because there wouldnt be those limpers before hand so we would almost never have the situation. when was the last time you saw limp limp limp on a nl300 table. like has been mentioned before im sure there is no hard and fast rule for playing this pre and there are pros and cons for both actions, was just nice to see other peoples views.
Posted by pod1

I see limpers quite a few times on Mastercash shows, you don't have to be be playing NL4 to be a fish it's just a case of how much money you have, if a bad player wins the lottory he can easily go an limp all day long at NL300, but I also imagine there are just really rich guys who like gambling.

Another point on NL300 is most times you'll be facing a raise or 3bet before you which makes it much tougher to play, against limpers you have it easy, they put no pressure on you but that doesn't mean you don't raise for value, raising builds the pot for when you hit and also lowers the amount of players in the hand which helps with c-bets.

pod1

i cant believe how my games changed, im being told by the nittyest nit thing, the tightest tighty i know to raise aj oop. man ,i must be a rock :-)

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: wifi grrrrrrrrrrrr:

i cant believe how my games changed, im being told by the nittyest nit thing, the tightest tighty i know to raise aj oop. man ,i must be a rock :-)
Posted by pod1

That's what I was thinking which is why it makes no sense lol

I'd just imagined this would be a standard raise for you as it would most decent players.

grantorino

raise pre for value, lots of worse hands call. When we hit then we have an inflated pot v hands we dominate, when we miss sometimes cbet, sometimes c/f. If we get 3 callers so what, if we get less great

You dont have to cbet if you raise pre, c/f some flops is fine especially multiway

checking behind make it hard to win a big pot unless we completely cooler oppo

Also the people who limp Arag will call a raise about 98% of the time

BigBluster

Know how you feel mate. I had one recently where I was in the BB with Q2, with the SB and I both 100B deep. The SB made it up, the flop came QQ2 and he shoved on me!
I kept clicking 'call', kept swearing at the machine 'not now you B@st...oh FFS, not now" yet the thing timed me out.

Now why can't it do that on some of my drunken idiotic 'trying to be clever' moves?

pod1

lets just say bigbluster i dragged the computer table back out to the hallway and reset it up with the cable, rather sit in a colddraft than go through that again, a few obsenities did pass my lips. have a friend who is going to put some card in my computer to stop it happening again. ps dude, cant wait till i have to tell you to reign it in coz your playing like a lunitic!!!