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being put to decisions at NL50

edited March 2012 in The Poker Clinic

Villain multi tables and seems to be half decent.  he is fairly aggressive and will see me as aggro especially when i have position.  he has been sat for about 2 orbits but will still know that the btn in this hand is the value at the table.  the guy on the btn is shocking and has been limp calling all over the place and min raises if he has AA or KK.  as soon as the btn checks the flop both me and villain know he has absolutely nothing.

obviously i love the river with the way the hand has been played but when villain shoves the river what do we do?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
villain Small blind  £0.25 £0.25 £49.75
huuuuume Big blind  £0.50 £0.75 £95.10
 Your hole cards
  • K
  • 5
   
mycardude Fold     
jackl Fold     
btnRaise  £1.00 £1.75 £40.66
villain Call  £0.75 £2.50 £49.00
huuuuume Call  £0.50 £3.00 £94.60
Flop
  
  • 7
  • 10
  • 6
   
villain Check     
huuuuume Check     
btnCheck     
Turn
  
  • 2
   
villain Bet  £2.00 £5.00 £47.00
huuuuume Raise  £6.50 £11.50 £88.10
btnFold     
villain Call  £4.50 £16.00 £42.50
River
  
  • 7
   
villain Check     
huuuuume Bet  £10.50 £26.50 £77.60
villain All-in  £42.50 £69.00 £0.00

Comments

  • edited March 2012
    I hate these spots, if I knew who the oppo was I'd maybe have a slightly better idea.

    Pre-flop action doesn't really give any clues, could have a small pair, could have suited ace (but if your pretty hilarious read about the button player is correct then obv suited ace is less likely).

    I don't know, it's one to put through stove after you've called...
  • edited March 2012
    If he's been limp calling a lot, then his min raise pre-flop surely has to represent some kind of strength. I don't think a call is terrible, I don't think a fold is terrible either. I personally favour a fold against a fish when I'm unsure where I am in the hand, as I'll get better spots to take his money off him later on.

    I know it's only another 50p to call, but you should fold this hand pre-flop IMO. With K5s, OOP, you're never going to hit anything that you'll be completely happy getting your 100bb effective stack in with, unless you flop quads...
  • edited March 2012
    2nd nuts hard to fold maybe a leak in my game but im snapping this of in omaha easy fold but nl im getting chips in 
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    If he's been limp calling a lot, then his min raise pre-flop surely has to represent some kind of strength. I don't think a call is terrible, I don't think a fold is terrible either. I personally favour a fold against a fish when I'm unsure where I am in the hand, as I'll get better spots to take his money off him later on. I know it's only another 50p to call, but you should fold this hand pre-flop IMO. With K5s, OOP, you're never going to hit anything that you'll be completely happy getting your 100bb effective stack in with, unless you flop quads...
    Posted by EvilPingu
    This is actually a very good point, my first reply was based solely on your river decision (which I think is the question you were asking in the first place anyway)...

    Re-reading this just makes your read/pf decision even funnier. If you think he min-raises with AA or KK wtf are you calling with K5 for?
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    If you think he min-raises with AA or KK wtf are you calling with K5 for?
    Posted by richtea
    And if you think he's mostly got AA/KK here, doesn't this just become the snappiest snap call in the whole of snapsville when he shoves river?
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : And if you think he's mostly got AA/KK here, doesn't this just become the snappiest snap call in the whole of snapsville when he shoves river?
    Posted by EvilPingu
    BTN has already folded, I'm talking about the pf decision
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : BTN has already folded, I'm talking about the pf decision
    Posted by richtea
    Misread the post-flop action, thought the button was the guy who re-raised all in on the river for some reason :o
  • edited March 2012
    Weird hand.  First look it looked like a fold as we are only beating a scb on river.

    But then through the streets it looks kind of different.  Think river could be a 7 or straight, perhaps even weaker flush.  Really hard to say.

    Would just have to come down to reads/notes for me here.  Readless I fold.  Seems like when clicking call, pots never ours.  Can only call if we know oppo massively overplays marginal hands, otherwise I'm juist going to assume river shove is for value.  If we are wrong in this spot I'm sure we'll soon find out from upcoming hands, then we'll have notes needed, myeh or we can just call and note take :p Prob a fold tho lol,
  • edited March 2012
    fold pre, why re-raise turn??(please tell me) c/c (C/fold to shove) or b/f river. 
  • edited March 2012
    If oppo is min raising pre big hands, then your fine - not got AKdd has oppo so.....

    You have called pre to hit this hand or take it away on turn so.. how can you fold now ?

    if oppo turns house or nut flush then hey ho move on.....

  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    If oppo is min raising pre big hands, then your fine - not got AKdd has oppo so..... You have called pre to hit this hand or take it away on turn so.. how can you fold now ? if oppo turns house or nut flush then hey ho move on.....
    Posted by rancid
    You need to re think you'r mentality on cash games m8!!!! i mean............ if oppo turns house or nut flush hey ho move on??

    Villain is a decent reg(Prob has ~22), ask yourself what does a decent reg on the SB have that he is happy to put all his money in with on the river???? this is a easy fold.
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    fold pre, why re-raise turn??(please tell me) c/c (C/fold to shove) or b/f river. 
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    Why not? gotta do it with draws sometimes
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : Why not? gotta do it with draws sometimes
    Posted by Poker_Fail
    Because the way the hand played out(and v this villain), i doubt villain is stealing pot with air? if we get 3-bet then what? we get raised off the hand with some equity, and inflating the pot with k high

    You give me reasons on why raising is good..... 
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : Because the way the hand played out(and v this villain), i doubt villain is stealing pot with air? if we get 3-bet then what? we get raised off the hand with some equity, and inflating the pot with k high You give me reasons on why raising is good..... 
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    Flop checked round, Hume has said that Btn would have bet if he had hit flop, villain could also know this.

    It's said that villain is at the very least competent, can't only be reraising the turn with monsters can we?
  • edited March 2012
    "villain will see me as aggro especially when i have position."

    hmmm, I don't see how he could have a house, although he knows you're aggro, you'll surely often want to have a back-up plan eg flush draw (as you did this time) if he had a set or 2 pair by the turn, with 2 flush draws surely he'd try and get the lot in then? Or maybe he knows you're likely to bet ANY river and he likes his chances :S

    Tough spot...

    I can't help but think he's gotta have nut flush
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : Flop checked round, Hume has said that Btn would have bet if he had hit flop, villain could also know this. It's said that villain is at the very least competent, can't only be reraising the turn with monsters can we?
    Posted by Poker_Fail
    Sorry, what are we achieving by raising?
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : Sorry, what are we achieving by raising?
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    Would you only ever reraise the turn with the near nuts? If so then you'll be extremely predictable

    Play ABC vs the fish
  • edited March 2012
    Were deep enough to raise turn here no problem.  There are alot of benefits of raising turn here IP going to river other than value though, definately making it fine.
  • edited March 2012
    turn is closer to a fold than a re-raise

    Its tough spot here because its self-inflicted

    Yes, i am never bluffing here...because its just like giving money away, why bother(very small pot) rarely dead money since Sb has gotten involved.
  • edited March 2012
    very very very few decent regs are capable of doing this without the ~nuts

    there are one or two who might get out of line like this.

    if its the regs who know why they are MR BTN then I think it might be a call

    if its the regs who just MR BTN because they are copying and don't know why they are doing it and are just clicking buttons then its a fold..
  • edited March 2012
    Except the reg was the guy who peeled the sb. The min raiser otb really has little to do with the hand.

    I think you have to fold, I can't think of many players who won't show you a house here. Some won't even jam AXd.
  • edited March 2012
    oh yeah sigh why don't I read these things properly

    yeah even more of a fold now.
  • edited March 2012
    dont think villain will mind if i post his screen name as he obviously played this hand well regardless. 

    sadloner69 was small blind.

    the guy on the button can remain unknown for obvious reasons.

    the only reason i gave the read about guy on the button is because it effects the dynamics between me and sb.  we both know villain is out of the hand now so i dont want to let him have control over a pot that i think i can have and i have position in. 

    i reraise turn to balance ranges.  i also think he leads a large % of his range here on the turn so im happy to reraise a large % of my range too (can't make it too easy for him).  pot is relatively small and i would probably be reraising this board with the hands that im trying to represent on the turn (straights and sets).  river obviously looks great to me.  i also think i will take the pot down a lot on this turn from top pair type hands (villain may be good enough to know this too...maybe).  it is also easier to reraise this turn with the knowledge there wont be any action from the player on the btn.
  • edited March 2012
    oh right ok. Well the fact it was him makes it less of a fold. Even he is going to show up with the eff nuts here way more than he doesn't.

    Sometimes you just have to let it go and if he's bluffed you then fair enough. I wouldn't spend too long thinking about a spot like this and if you folded I'd be fairly happy with that decision.

  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : You need to re think you'r mentality on cash games m8!!!! i mean............ if oppo turns house or nut flush hey ho move on?? Villain is a decent reg(Prob has ~22), ask yourself what does a decent reg on the SB have that he is happy to put all his money in with on the river???? this is a easy fold.
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    oooops my bad- mis read hand, thought vil was btn :S
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50:
    In Response to Re: being put to decisions at NL50 : oooops my bad- mis read hand, thought vil was btn :S
    Posted by rancid
    lol dont worry most posters did tbf :)
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