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Hand on my mind...
Don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this but am curious to see what % of people fold v call and what factors make you come to the decision. Here's the situation...
Last night I'm playing in the 9pm, £110 entry £5k bounty hunter. Important to know that I have qualified for it via a Frenzie (or may have been a £9.60 semi final) but either way I only paid about £10 to get into it.
9 players left. Top 8 get paid.
Prizes go something like:
1 - £750 + bounties
2 - £500 + bounties
3 - £350 + bounties
4 - £250 + bounties
5 - £200 + bounties
6 - £175 + bounties
7 - £150 + bounties
8 - £125 + bounties
I have taken a few bounties so whilst I'm on the cash bubble, I've already made about £140.
I am laying in about 3rd or 4th spot and the blinds are at 250/500.
I'm dealt QQ on small blind.
3 folds and then dealer (who is lyonsbob who is obviously a good player) raises to 1,500.
I believe it's a move so I raise back to 3,500.
Big blind folds.
Lyons Bob shoves with 20,000 chips which means I am all in to call.
In the 20 or so seconds I have to make a decision, my thought process goes...
He could have a small or mid pair. If so I am big favourite.
He could have Ace suited. Unlikely.
Unlikely he has AA, or KK. Possible but unlikely.
Could still be a move. Unlikely.
I think he has AK. I'm racing but still slight favourite.
Overall, I think I'm almost certainly in front.
If I call and win, puts me in excellent position. I'll have about a quarter of all the chips in play and in a strong spot to go on and win or place very high the tournament.
If I call and lose I'm out and don't cash at all but still get the £140 already made in bounties.
Am I in this to win it or cash?
Timer ticks down...
Last seconds I make the call...
He shows AK
Hits the Ace on flop.
For the second time in 3 days I bubble in the same tournament.
But in all honesty, I make that call 100 times out of a 100 in the same situation. Even (especially) if I can see his AK.
Call or fold guys?
Last night I'm playing in the 9pm, £110 entry £5k bounty hunter. Important to know that I have qualified for it via a Frenzie (or may have been a £9.60 semi final) but either way I only paid about £10 to get into it.
9 players left. Top 8 get paid.
Prizes go something like:
1 - £750 + bounties
2 - £500 + bounties
3 - £350 + bounties
4 - £250 + bounties
5 - £200 + bounties
6 - £175 + bounties
7 - £150 + bounties
8 - £125 + bounties
I have taken a few bounties so whilst I'm on the cash bubble, I've already made about £140.
I am laying in about 3rd or 4th spot and the blinds are at 250/500.
I'm dealt QQ on small blind.
3 folds and then dealer (who is lyonsbob who is obviously a good player) raises to 1,500.
I believe it's a move so I raise back to 3,500.
Big blind folds.
Lyons Bob shoves with 20,000 chips which means I am all in to call.
In the 20 or so seconds I have to make a decision, my thought process goes...
He could have a small or mid pair. If so I am big favourite.
He could have Ace suited. Unlikely.
Unlikely he has AA, or KK. Possible but unlikely.
Could still be a move. Unlikely.
I think he has AK. I'm racing but still slight favourite.
Overall, I think I'm almost certainly in front.
If I call and win, puts me in excellent position. I'll have about a quarter of all the chips in play and in a strong spot to go on and win or place very high the tournament.
If I call and lose I'm out and don't cash at all but still get the £140 already made in bounties.
Am I in this to win it or cash?
Timer ticks down...
Last seconds I make the call...
He shows AK
Hits the Ace on flop.
For the second time in 3 days I bubble in the same tournament.
But in all honesty, I make that call 100 times out of a 100 in the same situation. Even (especially) if I can see his AK.
Call or fold guys?
Comments
Horrible about all the bubbling though, I've bubbled the SPT Brighton twice now and had multiple really bad beats/coolers near the cash/seats,
ul baz.. we all have these tough choices at some stage , it one of them where u wanted 2 7 os and an easy fold on bubble..
*I have no idea how tight/loose Lyons is
He's a good player though, and knows to bully people at the bubble so I wouldn't be surprised if he turned up with 9s or 8s here sometimes
I don't think it really matters whether you think it is a move or not. Reraising here is pretty standard.
How many BB would you have left if you folded (im guessing 20/25) ??
I must be the only one whos posted so far who could possibly find a fold.
I would never be wanting to take a flip for this many blinds at this stage !!
Once you have 3betted then it is so much harder to fold to a shove. But as said above, AK was probably the best hand you could hope he showed.
I notice you have listed the cash payouts. In a BH they are shallower, but obviously the top prizes are going to be boosted by the big bounties available on a final table. So you should look at it the same as a freezeout and always play for the win, where the real money is. The fact that you were already showing a good return on your initial buyin is irrelevant.
Which brings us back to the 3bet. What was it going to achieve ? Take the pot down ? Build the pot?
I would be shoving or calling there on the bubble, not wanting to be put to the test.
I would be far happier losing QQ v AK knowing I had given my opponent the big decision.
Or would have found an easy fold on an Ace high flop if I had only committed 1500 chips.
And as you said QQ IS a massive hand, so folding is not a realistic option.
So the best move must be calling and seeing a flop.
If you do 3bet, is 3500 big enough to fold out AJ etc ? Think it may get called with that type of hand, he has the chips to put 2k in to see flop. So you still have the problem when the ace comes.
I cannot wait until antes, then you will all have to widen your range to possibly Jacks zzzz
Fwiw OP played hand perfect.
The only problem with the hand is the fact you took your time to call. Once you 3 bet its a snap call!!! If you want to win tournaments then you have to call with QQ in this situation every time.
If I'm honest, I'd made the decision that I was gonna shove to any reraise with the QQ defore I'd made the initial re-raise. Looking back on it I guess the reraise was actually a plan to induce the shove so it actually worked! All except for the Ace hitting on the flop!
Nice and concise, I may have to use it as a template in the future
Only thing missing is your Stack, am going to guess around 35bbs.
I think for all the reasons you describe so well, either a call or fold is fine IMO. Depends what the money means to you, what you feel your edge/potential is vs seats.
If you feel strongly its a flip, you can elect not to take it. Its not a cash hand, its a T money bubble where our roi is going to be 1500% base for min cash.
In pots like these where the decision process is drawn out, its usually a fold, more for reasons outside of the game. ie BR - which doesnt have to be a bad thing. Even against a bare A we lose 1/3.
So will be on the fence and say either is fine. If the money is immaterial, its a snap though.
Easy to say we oughtnt to think about the money, but silly not to when we have satd in and can take a decent BR jump