£15k BH - Good move, or just spewy?

EvilPingu

Sent this in to the show tonight but hand unfortunately wasn't shown - Thoughts on this move please?

Hand History #489546458 (20:32 08/03/2012)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
EvilPingu	Small blind		50.00	50.00	2520.00
mucka44420	Big blind		100.00	150.00	4691.25
	Your hole cards	J 9
craib1989	Call		100.00	250.00	1856.25
k12plt	Fold
IGUANAKID	Call		100.00	350.00	3038.75
taxi786786	Call		100.00	450.00	4133.75
EvilPingu	All-in		2520.00	2970.00	0.00
mucka44420	Fold
craib1989	Fold
IGUANAKID	Fold
taxi786786	Fold
EvilPingu	Muck
EvilPingu	Win		500.00		500.00
EvilPingu	Return		2470.00	0.00	2970.00

pryce6

I think with the fact it's a BH and there are no antes, pretty spewy. They will call you with JTs loads here and then you're like...oh.

AMYBR

Dont love it, dont hate it.

For me, i'd rather flat getting 10/1 n flop a whopper multi way.

But there are certainly pro's to the move

Dudeskin8

Because it's a bounty hunter this is so high variance as most bad players don't like limp folding and if they have ANY sort of hand they'll snap you off quick time to 'take dat bounty'. 

25bbs in any MTT is plenty so IMO you can wait a good while till this move needs to be made, on a side note though if you have AK/AQ even AJ and medium to high pairs I don't mind it.

BorinLoner

I like it. There are 450 chips in there that nobody seems to want. By limping in they're not showing any strength at all and, overwhelmingly often, their logic for doing so is simply that they want to see a cheap flop. Admittedly on a very few ocassions some people limp monster hands under the gun but most of the time this won't be the case. Unless we're really unlucky and the BB wakes up with a big hand this bet gets through so often that it's definitely a good move.

I appreciate what Dudeskin's saying about Bounty Hunter but I don't think any reasonable player is going to limp with a hand that they're willing to call off their stack with.

Curt360x27

In the biggest donkament ever to exist this is tournament suicide.

BorinLoner

They'd have to be such massive fish, I mean like blue-fin tuna, for this not be a profitable play. Sometimes you'll get caught out by one of those fish but this gets through so much more often that it just has to be good play... It just has to be... surely...

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: £15k BH - Good move, or just spewy?:

I like it. There are 450 chips in there that nobody seems to want. By limping in they're not showing any strength at all and, overwhelmingly often, their logic for doing so is simply that they want to see a cheap flop. Admittedly on a very few ocassions some people limp monster hands under the gun but most of the time this won't be the case. Unless we're really unlucky and the BB wakes up with a big hand this bet gets through so often that it's definitely a good move. I appreciate what Dudeskin's saying about Bounty Hunter but I don't think any reasonable player is going to limp with a hand that they're willing to call off their stack with.
Posted by BorinLoner

I take it you've never played one of these lol

Curt360x27

In Response to Re: £15k BH - Good move, or just spewy?:

They'd have to be such massive fish, I mean like blue-fin tuna, for this not be a profitable play. Sometimes you'll get caught out by one of those fish but this gets through so much more often that it just has to be good play... It just has to be... surely...
Posted by BorinLoner

 No

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: £15k BH - Good move, or just spewy?:

In Response to Re: £15k BH - Good move, or just spewy? : I take it you've never played one of these lol
Posted by Dudeskin8

Online, I think I've played one... about a year ago. lol

Well, in a regular tournament this is good. Dudeskin, I hope that your perception of play in these tournaments is being skewed by one or two incidents, rather than this being the norm. Hopefully...

simonnatur

in my experience you'll get snap called by any pair

pacificjoe

Generally its a good play as it appears evrybody else is weak and you increased your stack by 20% but if Id have limped utg with a pair I would call you as I read you as weak. If you had a big pair aa kk qq your far more likely to 3x reraise (if you had have done that I would lay down most pairs to you as i would percieve your hand to have been significantly stronger than j 9 off).  However you should also factor in that in these tournaments many donkeys with call you with average range hands like j 10 k j and kq to which your behind and dominated

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: £15k BH - Good move, or just spewy?:

In Response to Re: £15k BH - Good move, or just spewy? : Online, I think I've played one... about a year ago. lol Well, in a regular tournament this is good. Dudeskin, I hope that your perception of play in these tournaments is being skewed by one or two incidents, rather than this being the norm. Hopefully ...
Posted by BorinLoner

Do you ever watch the shows on the channel, just yesterday they showed highlights, limp, limp, limp with ATC, the standard is atrocious. However that is a GOOD thing but it doesn't mean we need to take risks like this when they will pay us off so easy in better spots. 

Basically treat BH's like NL4 but even worse as calling you off 'gets dem dat bounty' not just 4 bob. 

Mohican

In Response to Re: £15k BH - Good move, or just spewy?:

in my experience you'll get snap called by any pair
Posted by simonnatur

This. Limp calling is just such a poor play IMO.It's not good enough to raise but good enough to call an all in. Makes no sense to me.

bazbazbaz	Small blind		300.00	300.00	25511.25
RUNITSRANN	Big blind		600.00	900.00	11508.00
	Your hole cards	A Q
karlluke	Call		600.00	1500.00	17421.00
Mohican	All-in		9639.75	11139.75	0.00
henners10	Fold
bazbazbaz	Fold
RUNITSRANN	Fold
karlluke	Call		9039.75	20179.50	8381.25
karlluke	Show	4 4
Mohican	Show	A Q
Flop
		K 5 K
Turn
		8
River
		9
karlluke	Win	Two Pairs, Kings and 4s	20179.50		28560.75

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: £15k BH - Good move, or just spewy?:

Generally its a good play as it appears evrybody else is weak and you increased your stack by 20% but if Id have limped utg with a pair I would call you as I read you as weak. If you had a big pair aa kk qq your far more likely to 3x reraise (if you had have done that I would lay down most pairs to you as i would percieve your hand to have been significantly stronger than j 9 off).  However you should also factor in that in these tournaments many donkeys with call you with average range hands like j 10 k j and kq to which your behind and dominated
Posted by pacificjoe

A few issues here:

1) Would you really call with, let's say, 66 and two players still to act behind you? Are you really limping to call for your stack, just hoping that you're in a coin-flip and not crushed?

2) How can someone ever make it a 3x raise when there have already been three limpers? The pot is 450 now and a 3x raise would make it 700. Now the BB - or the first limper if the BB folds - has 7/2 odds on his call and every subsequent limper has even better odds. You'll achieve nothing with a 3x raise except to inflate a pot for the flop, which you will have to play out of position with multiple players behind you. That's a nightmare scenario with any hand but especially AA or KK.

3) This one's for Dudeskin: Yeah, I watch the channel all the time. I do see lots of players limping, but I don't see too many examples of them limp-calling for stacks. Even when I do; it's a TV channel, of course they're going to show the interesting, quirky (crazy) hands. I usually assume that these hands are not commonplace in the tournament. Perhaps that's wrong, but I'd have to play a few of them to be convinced.

Dudeskin8

Main reason you don't see someone calling off after limping is because the WHOLE table is limping lol

I don't play many of these myself as I prefer Deepstacks but whenever I do it's exactly the same limp, limp, flat MASSIVE raises OOP etc, sometimes you get the rebuy ones where guys liturally just go AI ATC again and again and just spend about £30 in say a £3.30 touney lol