DYM SNG Rake Suggestion

Oblations

Hi Sky

I'm surprised that a higher percentage rake is charged for DYM SNGs for your new customers trying to learn the game by playing at the lower stakes to try to make a few pounds in order to move up the stakes.

25p and 50p games are charged 20% rake; £1.00 games are charged 15%; £2.00 games are charged 12.5%; and yet £3.00 and higher games are only charged 10%.

As you know, this means that a 25p game player has to win 60 out of 100 games simply to break even after rake, no mean task, whereas a £3.00 game player has to win only 55 games out of 100 to break even after rake.

This seems backwards to me as it is obviously much harder for a serious novice to win 60%+ of the time than it is for a more experienced player to win 55%+ of the time to enable them to move upwards and onwards without them having to keep depositing new money.

From Sky Poker's point of view, it costs no more to provide the games for novices, and 10% gross profit from every player, no matter what the game stake, seems to me to be a far more equitable way of operating the tables.

My suggestion is to correct this unfair anomaly and change the rake on all DYM SNG games to 10%.

Is there any justification for collecting the higher rake percentage from your new players that I have missed? I would have thought that many businesses might even consider having a loss leader to encourage new customers to stay around and become regular customers by charging less rake while they learn the game at the lowest stakes. Dare I say it: perhaps 25p + 2p rake?

VespaPX

Couldn't agree more !

JasonKing9

I also agree and wouldnt play any lower than £3 but you must understand that skypoker is a bussiness and needs to make cash to pay all the admin costs and when 6 players are on a low stake like 25p 50p DYM then that is another 6 players who arent going to be paying rake till that table is done, most players playing this level will only have one table open.  To be honest 60% win is very easy to achieve on DYM.  I also think you should try a £3 DYM because I think they are much more easy to win than the lower levels as their is more action on the higher levels and you can pretty much fold your way to the money.  I have come from another site and used to specialise in DYM on that site and used to play the $50 and $100 games their.

Oblations

In Response to Re: DYM SNG Rake Suggestion:

I also agree and wouldnt play any lower than £3 but you must understand that skypoker is a bussiness and needs to make cash to pay all the admin costs and when 6 players are on a low stake like 25p 50p DYM then that is another 6 players who arent going to be paying rake till that table is done, most players playing this level will only have one table open.  To be honest 60% win is very easy to achieve on DYM.  I also think you should try a £3 DYM because I think they are much more easy to win than the lower levels as their is more action on the higher levels and you can pretty much fold your way to the money.  I have come from another site and used to specialise in DYM on that site and used to play the $50 and $100 games their.
Posted by JasonKing9

I disagree that it is easy to win 60% of the games. You are either playing against similar novices, in which case you will win 50% of the games, or you will be playing against more experienced players, in which case you will only win, say, 40% of the games. (If you are playing against a mix of similar novices and more experienced players, a likely scenario, you will win, say, 45% of the games.)

To win 60% of the time, you will need to be considerably better than your opponents, and you won't get better until you play a lot of games. If you and your opponents continue to play the micro-games, your and their skill will increase similarly, and therefore you will win maybe 45% to 55% of your games, depending on the mix. If your skill over your opponents' increases considerably, by the time you are good enough to win 60% of the games, and breaking even after the rake, to justify moving up the stakes based on your skill, the group of players above you are likely to have left you in the dust, in skill terms.

I know in practice that this is not totally realistic, but, in terms of the percentage of rake taken by Sky Poker, once again I maintain that it is not fair or helpful to novices to have to pay the much higher rake, and I ask that Sky Poker considers changing the structure to, at worst, an equal percentage of rake, whatever the stakes played may be.

Regrettably, as no Sky Poker Representative has commented, I realise I am probably tilting at windmills, unless other players join me in this crusade for fairness all round.




 

TWRAMYEP

10% rake is to much in these games imo, it should be in line with HU rake of 5% they pay out exactly the same, ie 50% of player pool gets double there buyin.

But the rake has been the same since DYM first rolled out here on sky and getting skypoker to take a pay cut despite its unfair rake policy in DYMs will be very difficult if not impossible.

if the rake was 5% id grind these till i was blue in the face but as it stands at 10% im not touching them there is  better value elsewhere

Oblations

In Response to Re: DYM SNG Rake Suggestion:

10% rake is to much in these games imo, it should be in line with HU rake of 5% they pay out exactly the same, ie 50% of player pool gets double there buyin. But the rake has been the same since DYM first rolled out here on sky and getting skypoker to take a pay cut despite its unfair rake policy in DYMs will be very difficult if not impossible. if the rake was 5% id grind these till i was blue in the face but as it stands at 10% im not touching them there is  better value elsewhere
Posted by TWRAMYEP

You make a very valid point, that the games are similar to HU in terms of payouts, and, of course, I would never argue against a reduction to 5% rake!

Having read your post, the 20% rake charged for the new players to learn the game now appears even worse than I thought!

Do Sky policy-makers ever read these threads and explain their thinking? I must say I can't see any valid reason to charge the relatively extortionate 20% rake to their new customers, who, presumably, they want to stay as customers, after their advertising has been successful and brought them here as against them going to try one of the bigger and more established poker rooms. Why irritate these new customers and "force" them to try the other rooms to see if there is better value elsewhere?

VespaPX

I'm guessing but i reckon Sky are relying on new players not fully understanding Rake!

GaryQQQ

I agree, everybody agrees. However, there have been several threads like this before, they always get unanimous support, but they always fall on deaf ears. I've got a funny feeling this one will too.


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unknown_username

Maybe it works as an incentive to move up through the stakes lol. Obviously too high % wise though.

waller03

In Response to Re: DYM SNG Rake Suggestion:

Maybe it works as an incentive to move up through the stakes lol. Obviously too high % wise though.
Posted by patwalshh

Basically false advertising coz ur not doubling your money at all. I play the £5.00+50p and £10+£1. Its rather annoying as i normally multi table on 4 knowing i have to win 3/4 each time to make profit on that particular round of games. I know thats not the exact maths of it but is how it seems. Perhaps if they want to take so much rake for SNG's they should make them 10 seater and pay out the top 5 with the amounts based on stack size....kind of like another certain site called pokerstars (can i say that here lol?) who dont advertise it is DYM coz it isnt.....even though the rake is very much similar, due to the varied payout its not noticeable....

It must cost the same to run a 25p+5p DYM as it does a £75+£7.50....so where is the justification to still charge to 10% the higher u go. Major cash cow as far as im concerned which is why i refuse to play any higher than £10+£1....i'll save my higher stakes SNG's for my other site where i find it much better value for money )

Its a shame, as someone mentioned above, these threads always fall on deaf ears!

67Bhoys

Couldn't agree more, the DYM players never seem to be the one to get any promotions of rake reductions or double points happy hours either.

salazar

Play the regular ones where the top 2 get paid the prize pool, the rake won't hurt as much then.

Oblations

In Response to Re: DYM SNG Rake Suggestion:

Maybe it works as an incentive to move up through the stakes lol. Obviously too high % wise though.
Posted by patwalshh

I thought this was an excellent suggestion by Synergistic Explosions in another poker forum, and well worth serious consideration by TPTB of Sky Poker, for their own future and long term benefit, and for the encouragement of all new players; something that Sky Poker purports continually to do:

"If they would just get rid of the raking every two dimes in pot scheme it might let these micro players build up a bankroll and move up to low and mid limits eventually. Otherwise they just kill the tadpoles before they grow into frogs, and there is nothing in the pond for the fish to eat, unless they want to play .02/.04 tadpoles. But even they couldn't overcome the rake there.

"I say let the tadpoles play rake free and don't even begin to rake until you get to .25/.50 limit games. It's not unreasonable to ask for this. We want to nurture the micro's so they can make some money and feel some success so they WANT to move up in limits. Going from .02/.04 then to .05/.10 then to .10/.20 is a natural progression for micro players starting out and if those games are not raked you will help the biggest pool of limit players now on [another poker network] to be able to move into the low limit games at a larger and faster rate. Most now just die in the micros going broke because it all goes to the rake after a few thousand hands played if that. They don't think they are good players and they stop playing altogether. It's true. I know this to be true. So please help the tadpoles survive so we can have players moving up in limits and the games can get healthy again. It won't be instant, it will take time to see the improvement, it will actually be damn slow getting the limit players back in numbers, but it can be done. You just have to nurture the micro players first so they can feel success from actually beating lesser skilled players. If the best players on micros still lose because of rake then limit will never have any hope to stay feasible.

"A quarter per $5 is the way to go then at the low limits , with the accepted caps in place also."

67Bhoys

I
n Response to Re: DYM SNG Rake Suggestion:

In Response to Re: DYM SNG Rake Suggestion : I thought this was an excellent suggestion by Synergistic Explosions in another poker forum, and well worth serious consideration by TPTB of Sky Poker, for their own future and long term benefit, and for the encouragement of all new players; something that Sky Poker purports continually to do: "If they would just get rid of the raking every two dimes in pot scheme it might let these micro players build up a bankroll and move up to low and mid limits eventually. Otherwise they just kill the tadpoles before they grow into frogs, and there is nothing in the pond for the fish to eat, unless they want to play .02/.04 tadpoles. But even they couldn't overcome the rake there. "I say let the tadpoles play rake free and don't even begin to rake until you get to .25/.50 limit games. It's not unreasonable to ask for this. We want to nurture the micro's so they can make some money and feel some success so they WANT to move up in limits. Going from .02/.04 then to .05/.10 then to .10/.20 is a natural progression for micro players starting out and if those games are not raked you will help the biggest pool of limit players now on [another poker network] to be able to move into the low limit games at a larger and faster rate. Most now just die in the micros going broke because it all goes to the rake after a few thousand hands played if that. They don't think they are good players and they stop playing altogether. It's true. I know this to be true. So please help the tadpoles survive so we can have players moving up in limits and the games can get healthy again. It won't be instant, it will take time to see the improvement, it will actually be damn slow getting the limit players back in numbers, but it can be done. You just have to nurture the micro players first so they can feel success from actually beating lesser skilled players. If the best players on micros still lose because of rake then limit will never have any hope to stay feasible. "A quarter per $5 is the way to go then at the low limits , with the accepted caps in place also."
Posted by Oblations

This makes sense to me.  If you can attract customers to join your site by offering lower rakes at lower stakes, then you will have more customers.  even if a small % build a bankroll and begin to play higher stakes, then you will make money in the long run.

By having higher rakes at micro levels, you are making it more difficult for players to build a roll, therefore effectively discouraging players from transcending to the next level.