Playing against 'roulette' players?

Pipunch

Hi all, i'm back on Sky Poker after a long jaunt on Betfair's betting markets (where i made a killing big enough to return to Sky Poker with a bigger bankroll than i've ever had before, so it's now byebye BF hello SKY!)

I just have a question about playing what i like to call 'roulette' players. 

Playing 02/04 and 04/08 blinds cash, i'm really struggling with players who just don't care what they are doing and seem to be willing to shove most of their money in with anything.

I watch SkyPoker TV and i dream of the day i can play in games akin to those live games they air featuring Redmond Lee and Thew etc. They mostly only play good hands and any rubbish is folded, leaving you to pit your wits against other good hands. 

At the levels i'm playing at now, say i have AK suited, i don't want my opponents to fold to an all in shove (which they most certainly will do) but then huge raises giving them bad pot odds doesn't get them to fold and they get lucky. I'm losing a lot of money in dribs and drabs this way. How do you counter this? Because i'm starting to think to myself i should either be moving up to where the blinds are so big that only decent hands are played or i should be only playing premium pairs.

Any thoughts?

Dudeskin8

I'd stick to the betting if I was you mate as your current mentality regarding poker is pretty awful.

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

I'd stick to the betting if I was you mate as your current mentality regarding poker is pretty awful.
Posted by Dudeskin8

I'm asking you for advice and you come out with this?

Every time i raise huge pre-flop with a good hand i get called by some awful hand that sometimes makes it lucky. 90% of the time if i just shove they fold. I'm asking how to combat this, if you have nothing positive to say to me then please don't post at all.

Example, the other day i had the bullets on the button. I raised for a pretty big portion of my stack. Flop comes with me not hitting a hand, but the flop not really looking dangerous with rainbow 2 6 K. I shove. He calls. He turns over a 6 4 offsuit, but surprise surprise makes his 2-pair on the river. What i'm asking is how do you combat this? Or do you just keep making the shove and taking the short term beats?

Dudeskin8

He calls off his stack with second pair no kicker and you're complaining?

If you can't stand losing in these spots stop playing right now.

Pipunch

Mate, there's no need to be a nob about it. Nothing positive to say then DONT POST. 

I'm asking for advice because i'm not a seasoned poker player but i want to learn and all you have for me is a post with the air of 'i know more than you do, if you don't like losing here stop playing' - how's about you explain to me why i should not complain about it and some advice on how to beat it/play against it.

1267

Keep doing what you're doing.  If your getting the money in 75-85 percent favourite, theres not much more you can do.   Obviously you can't win every hand, but should make proffit over time, if your getting it in good 7 or 8 out of 10 times !
good luck

bolly580

have to afree with dudeskin here, dont be results orientated overtime youl beat these players if you keep doing the right things

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

Keep doing what you're doing.  If your getting the money in 75-85 percent favourite, theres not much more you can do.   Obviously you can't win every hand, but should make proffit over time, if your getting it in good 7 or 8 out of 10 times ! good luck
Posted by 1267

Thanks for this post. 

So i should just keep taking the beats short term?

I understand it might look like my mindset is all wrong but it's ignorance and not shoddy attitude, because i'm not totally clued up on how to play yet, but i want to learn.

Oopnorth

My own two penneth worth is that at 2p 4p when I have played there you have some grinders and you have some people with a few quid recreationally splashing it around not really caring about the odds and probabilities.
You run into a few bad beats generally, but of course a pot when you have bullets, your odds significantly decrease with each caller.
I dont play cash nearly enough to know as yet so ignore everything I say but if you have the roll I have heard it suggested that the quality gets better the higher you play, perhaps if you believe your game is good and you are rolled try a few buy ins at 10p tables and see if the calling is quite so light.

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

I think the 2p / 4p and 4p / 8p games need to be played a bit differnt from the higher levels.  Im not a pro or anything but I think you need to play a much more passive game at lower stakes and play aggressive when you actually have conected strong with the flop.  The hand you had aces and lost is just part of the game and I think you played it ok but I would have been playing for more value than shoving on the flop unless you know you are most likely to get called.  It might be a bit boring waiting on good hands to play but I think thats the only way to play if everyone is calling everything.  I would also be limp calling pre flop with a few speculitive hands in the hope to conect well with the flop and if I dont conect I would just give up the hand.  I wouldnt try anything fancy at theese stakes, How many tables do you play?
Posted by JasonKing9

Well because i'm trying to learn at the moment i'm figuring out pot odds, implied odds etc along with attempting to put my opponents on a range and play positionally so i only ever play one table at a time.

1267

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players? : Thanks for this post.  So i should just keep taking the beats short term? I understand it might look like my mindset is all wrong but it's ignorance and not shoddy attitude, because i'm not totally clued up on how to play yet, but i want to learn.
Posted by Pipunch

Yes unfortunately you will have to take some beats, and obviously it will hurt if you happen to take alot of these in a row.  Overtime though, if you are getting the money in with the best hand, you will make proffit in the long term.
If you are unsure about specific hands, post them in the clinic and i'm sure people will be more than happy to give you advice and analysis.

pomfrittes

   Just keep doing what you are doing, but always bear in mind that you are up against a lot of people at 2/4p who are just having some fun and will play any 2 cards. Learn to read flop textures and proceed with caution when you dont hit after ur initial raise but bet strong when you do. Unlike the higher levels the vast majority do not have a clue about betting patterns so you do not need to get tricky. Just play solid ABC poker to start with and you will do fine.

  DO NOT fall in to the trap of thinking it is easier to beat players at the higher levels. Would you rather play against Barcelona or Wigan Athletic?

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

   Just keep doing what you are doing, but always bear in mind that you are up against a lot of people at 2/4p who are just having some fun and will play any 2 cards. Learn to read flop textures and proceed with caution when you dont hit after ur initial raise but bet strong when you do. Unlike the higher levels the vast majority do not have a clue about betting patterns so you do not need to get tricky. Just play solid ABC poker to start with and you will do fine.   DO NOT fall in to the trap of thinking it is easier to beat players at the higher levels. Would you rather play against Barcelona or Wigan Athletic?
Posted by pomfrittes

Yes i get your point haha. I didn't think it would be easier at higher level, just perhaps more wits were needed instead of having to guess which K+low kicker your opponent has lol.

walesboy

I echo the above comments mate. You're getting your money in as favourite and can do no more. It does get annoying sometimes I admit as some days they can't miss.
If you can do more than one table at nl4 that would be better as it stops you (to some extent) playing the wrong hands at the wrong time (especially if you've lost a couple where you were favourite) which can tilt you.
 I should know!
As people have said, at nl4 volume is the key- you'll still get the losses but if you play right (ABC)  over time you'll be ahead.

Good luck

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

Mate, there's no need to be a nob about it. Nothing positive to say then DONT POST.  I'm asking for advice because i'm not a seasoned poker player but i want to learn and all you have for me is a post with the air of 'i know more than you do, if you don't like losing here stop playing' - how's about you explain to me why i should not complain about it and some advice on how to beat it/play against it.
Posted by Pipunch

If you're not a seasoned poker player how do you hope to outwit guys are, no instead you play guys who know even less than nothing and that place is called NL4

You shouln't complain because you can't control how the cards fall, only how you play and if you get your money in ahead EVERY time you will make a LOT of money.

In terms of getting better post a few of your losing hands up in the clinic to see if you're doing the basics right or not. 

TINTIN

if your playing nl4 then grow a thick skin, if you continue getting money in a big favourite then your gonna suffer from beats more than most coz your doing the right thing.

short term u may see negative results but over a larger sample you will come out a big winner.

these roulette players are easy exploitable and you just need to find your game to beat them

IDONKCALLU

we all get bad beats its called variance like 1267 said if we are ahead and get unlucky it happens its what we do taht matters like did we play the hand correct did we let them get there cheap aka free cards so they suck out on us longterm if your ahead u will win 90 per cent of the time but these bad river and lucky hits come thats poker over time tho if u play well u will beat the donks  

Lambert180

As others have said, bad beats only happen if you're doing the right thing. The very meaning of a bad beat is that you went in ahead and got outdrawn, so I'd be much more worried if you kept getting it in when you were behind (regardless of whether you win or not).

I think it helps to keep that in your head... you can only take a bad beat if you went in ahead (and getting it in ahead is what it's all about)

EvilPingu

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby/poker-school/beat-small-stakes-cash-games-1?tracking=pokersleftnav

I don't believe it, someone's written a guide telling you how to make money against Bingo players

As everyone has said, beats happen. Let the people who want to gamble, gamble, play like a rock and when you get a hand, take their money. Simples I recommend multi-tabling BTW, as 1 tabling NL4 is pretty boring (I know from experience, lol)

smith08619

Joining a table with lottery players is great. I always buy in for the maximum because alslong as you be patient and pick the right moment your guaranteed a nice pot.

pod1

best way round it is jump up to nl30, bypass them bad players and play people who will repect your raises. thats what i heard anyhows :-)

Spikelad

Hi Pipunch dont get frustrated mate remember in poker there is the luck factor to be taken into consideration and yes sometimes people will play rubbish hands and hit.I can only echo what the guys are saying you want these players to call your raises because longterm you will win,it is that simple.

I will see  you at the wonderful world of nl4 sometime mate.

simonnatur

Roulette is actually a great game. Hate to see it denigrated here. (Long term live roulette Pro)

Pipunch

I took on board all your comments and last night/this morning have been extremely profitable. Staying tight and just playing my premium hands against these weaker players is paying dividends. The variance has kicked in once or twice and i've been busted but i soon win it back off someone else on the table through their shoddy play. Thanks a lot for all the advice.

Pipunch

Just one more question.

If these players are so bad at this level how come most of the good players don't hang around them and just collect money off people? Or is it more profitable for the really decent players to be playing players weaker than themselves at higher stakes?

TINTIN

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

Just one more question. If these players are so bad at this level how come most of the good players don't hang around them and just collect money off people? Or is it more profitable for the really decent players to be playing players weaker than themselves at higher stakes?
Posted by Pipunch

youve answered your own question there.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

As others have said, bad beats only happen if you're doing the right thing. The very meaning of a bad beat is that you went in ahead and got outdrawn, so I'd be much more worried if you kept getting it in when you were behind (regardless of whether you win or not). I think it helps to keep that in your head... you can only take a bad beat if you went in ahead (and getting it in ahead is what it's all about)
Posted by Lambert180

Just get your money in winning and leave it to the poker gods! 2/4 cash can be a rather bumpy minefield on which i've tripped up on a few times.....boom!!!!! gl at the tables.

MP33

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players? : Well because i'm trying to learn at the moment i'm figuring out pot odds, implied odds etc along with attempting to put my opponents on a range and play positionally so i only ever play one table at a time.
Posted by Pipunch

The only problem ive found at NL4 is that you don,t learn much due to the standard of play. You may learn to beat NL4 by playing ABC but when you move up its a whole different ball game. The one thing i would advise as someone has already said is to multi-table at this level. Thats the one thing i learnt to do at NL4 and as for the bad beats - it happens a lot at this level but this is where you need to use good  BRM to ride out the downswings which will happen without it affecting your mindset. I don,t mind bad beats now . It means your doing something right by getting your money in ahead. I,d much rather get a bad beat than play the hand badly and lose that way

MP

pS - Sent u a PM

jonny124

I must say having played 2/4 alot on sky it really isnt poker at all just another form of roulette! Other sites low level stakes do play alot better, so maybe its worth you trying another site before returning to sky higher up limits...I may be just unlucky but sky is still the RIVER site for me, just happerns way to much on here.

BigHawk89

Move up a few levels people wont call you with cra p as much, but they are better players.......vicious circle.

TINTIN

In Response to Re: Playing against 'roulette' players?:

I must say having played 2/4 alot on sky it really isnt poker at all just another form of roulette! Other sites low level stakes do play alot better, so maybe its worth you trying another site before returning to sky higher up limits...I may be just unlucky but sky is still the RIVER site for me, just happerns way to much on here.
Posted by jonny124

if the standard here is that bad then surely you stay here and coin it in v the bad players. why do you want to play against better players, that just makes your job harder.

it can be frustrating at times but its about adapting your game.

ive said it before and i will say it again, NL4 is easy beatable here