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Profitable fold against NL20 uber nit?

edited March 2012 in The Poker Clinic

Okay so mainly a tournament player, do okay at them on here but am starting to play some cash as eventually this is were i want to be. Been 4-6 tabling nl20 and 30 and feel very comfortable at this leel and hope to move up the levels soon enough. Obiously as im new ish to cash il be making mistakes so may post a few hands up just to see what im doing right and wrong. The hand in question. This guy 12 tables nl20, is a huge huge nit. With this in mind is this a good or bad fold?

Looking at this hand i cant see one hand im beating that he is re raising me with unless it is a bluff. But maybe im wrong :P

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancefisherking Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £9.35 BigHawk89 Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £19.80  Your hole cards Q A    bichasila Fold     GFKIJKLL Fold     Wacko90 Raise  £0.80 £1.10 £26.05 FORDYCE Call  £0.80 £1.90 £43.34 fisherking Fold     BigHawk89 Call  £0.60 £2.50 £19.20 Flop  10 5 Q    BigHawk89 Check     Wacko90 Bet  £2.00 £4.50 £24.05 FORDYCE Raise  £5.00 £9.50 £38.34 BigHawk89 Fold     Wacko90 Fold     FORDYCE Muck     FORDYCE Win  £6.17  £44.51 FORDYCE Return  £3.00 £0.33 £47.51

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Comments

  • edited March 2012
    JK QK was my obv first thought also.

    But if you have him as an uber nit you kind of have to fold.
  • edited March 2012
    Tough spot for starters against this particular player from what I rememeber playing with this player. However he is capable of some moves and I have seen some questionable plays from this player . 

    Could possibly call and revaluate the turn if the player you think is capable of raising J9,JK.

    If you dont think player is capable of this then I think this fold is fine. Let him raisie his 55 here or Q10 and take it down and catch him out later, but this has to be player specific in other situation because he is NEVER flatting pree with KK or AA here. 
  • edited March 2012
    he is not an oober nit

    awful fold
  • edited March 2012
    i am never i mean never folding tptk uber nit or nit if he had a set u think he would raise if he a nit he would reel u in and call i think he has like what amyber said up n down draw or q k 
  • edited March 2012
    Okay, good advice so far guys ty, so lets assume for arguements sake that it is not a bluff (or so i thought). If i think that this is the case then what hands am i beating, IF i dont think its a bluff..
  • edited March 2012
    JK QK :p

    I have no notes reads on player.  You do.  I think you do right to stick to your own belief until you know otherwise.

    Aside from this, size of his raise is interesting.
  • edited March 2012
    He has 10 10 or 5 5. He never has kq here.
  • edited March 2012
    Haven't played this guy in such a long time.

    Will probably think a folds ok tho.

    The thing with supernits tho is that I end up leveling myself thinking oh gosh 1 day they are going to use their image and turn up with a total air ball so I keep calling/getting it in only to find they ahve a set everytime.
  • edited March 2012
  • edited March 2012
    Yeah I sometimes think that too Scotty sometimes I think he does use is image but I know for sure that a lot of the time he doesn't so didn't see the need to take the risk. Any other player and I look to get the chips in. Think my main problem on cash is making good folds so this is the part I'm trying to improve.
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Profitable fold against NL20 uber nit?:
    Haven't played this guy in such a long time. Will probably think a folds ok tho. The thing with supernits tho is that I end up leveling myself thinking oh gosh 1 day they are going to use their image and turn up with a total air ball so I keep calling/getting it in only to find they ahve a set everytime.
    Posted by scotty77
    lol - how I relate

    oppo has never got worse, maybe same hand :S


  • edited March 2012
    Was arguing with Hoggers the other day about this guy, I described him as "the nittiest player on sky poker".

    Hoggers reckons he's laggy!!!!!!

    Polarised opinion!

    Was this on a tv table wakko? 

    Get it on TV plz!

    I'll have a £1k sidebet with Hoggers that he has 3 5's or 3 10's!

    **edit, fordyce, if you are reading, this would be a great time to post up the Hand History and show a bluff...................................



  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Profitable fold against NL20 uber nit?:
    Was arguing with Hoggers the other day about this guy, I described him as "the nittiest player on sky poker". Hoggers reckons he's laggy!!!!!! Polarised opinion! Was this on a tv table wakko?  Get it on TV plz! I'll have a £1k sidebet with Hoggers that he has 3 5's or 3 10's! **edit, fordyce, if you are reading, this would be a great time to post up the Hand History and show a bluff...................................
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    I'm not sure if it was on a tv table tbh! I think its a very interesting hand, if i had just started playing nl20 and have no reads i go with this but knowing the player and the image he has i just didn't feel like i was beating anything he was raising with. I almost hope he was bluffing, would be a good bluff one thing i would say though.... 

    I lost a Bi to him on another table, sat with AQhh and board read something along the lines of 3510 with two hearts. I bet it, he re raised and i got to the stage where if i called i was pot committed anyway so shoved. he had a 33 there and held, so this also contributed to my thinking here.

    Oh and he's definitely not laggy he was playing one hand an hour on every table i was on!
  • edited March 2012
    hi wacko m8 a cash table as anyone knows u can reload but this is how i would of played it u bet 2 he raised to 5 u know u have top pair two cards remaining so its 3 to see turn now then yes 10 5 q u know theres no flush draws so if he is on the straight draw i call 3 if he miss that draw u r safe apart fron him hitting two pair or set so pot is 12.50 i then myself i pot bet then if turn  misses then u ship allin and as we dont know the full outcome of hand remains to be seen by maybe the person in question comes on forum and confirm with us

    gl on tables m8  and all pete
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Profitable fold against NL20 uber nit?:
    hi wacko m8 a cash table as anyone knows u can reload but this is how i would of played it u bet 2 he raised to 5 u know u have top pair two cards remaining so its 3 to see turn now then yes 10 5 q u know theres no flush draws so if he is on the straight draw i call 3 if he miss that draw u r safe apart fron him hitting two pair or set so pot is 12.50 i then myself i pot bet then if turn  misses then u ship allin and as we dont know the full outcome of hand remains to be seen by maybe the person in question comes on forum and confirm with us gl on tables m8  and all pete
    Posted by petethepla
    Please dont do this lol
  • edited March 2012
    I agree that hds up a flopped set probably just calls here as the board looks reasonably safe, but there is another player in the hand who might want to take a cheap card to complete an open ended str draw if he just flats the flop bet. As we've established there's a whole range of hands that can potentially put more money in the pot, but which would have checked to the raiser on the flop - a good reason for raising

    Playing devil's advocate,,,  other candidates for a raise would be AQ (same hand quite possible), KQ, KJ, maybe even AK if he's feeling frisky.

    On the whole though I don't think a fold here will cost you a lot of money over time.
  • edited March 2012
    Amazes me how many of these thick nut peddling clowns let you know what they've got and never slow play.
  • edited March 2012
    im never folding tptk thats just me against a nit or not like i said before if hes such a nit y is he raising with a set if your a nit u want to extract more money on later streets for me i cant see this being a set imo 
  • edited March 2012
    He is capable of moves if he views you as loose. He defo has made moves against me. IMO he would not raise with a set on such a dry board more likely he has JQ JK or QK for me
  • edited March 2012
    i will bet you a buyin he has you beat here. hoggers must be playing a different fordyce, yes he can make moves, but like ben says  i think hes telegraphing this one a bit.
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Profitable fold against NL20 uber nit?:
    i will bet you a buyin he has you beat here. hoggers must be playing a different fordyce, yes he can make moves, but like ben says  i think hes telegraphing this one a bit.
    Posted by pod1
    I havent played him for a few months, but believe me, when i was grinding nl20 we had some big battles where i called his bluffs. He may have changed his game, i dunno, but i certaintly have not got him in the oober nit category!
  • edited March 2012
    im not saying ubber nit either not in the same realms as dn.... and dudeskin, but this type of agression against a player like wacko (lag i guess from previous meetings) he will have it.
  • edited March 2012
    I totally get where your coming from hoggers! I mean tbh i rarely do calld own against this guy but when i have he has ALWAYS had it! So based on that i had to fold. If i had his image |(wish i did sometimes) then id use it to my advantage too!
  • edited March 2012
    you got as much chance of getting that image as hoggers :-)
  • edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Profitable fold against NL20 uber nit?:
    I totally get where your coming from hoggers! I mean tbh i rarely do calld own against this guy but when i have he has ALWAYS had it! So based on that i had to fold. If i had his image |(wish i did sometimes) then id use it to my advantage too!
    Posted by Wacko90
    long term actually sticking it in here, will give you some idea of how oppo views you - oppo may make the move here with a semi bluff but like what's said above - only if you have been very active with your opens and c bets

    imo if oppo has TPGK - I very much doubt oppo raises flop unless oppo thinks you a no one and stacks with TP hands that stand up bad to AQ

    fold and feel good about it or stick it and find out wtf is going on )
    OPPO is very solid but not a nit imo
  • edited March 2012
    Didnt think fordyce was that nitty but havent played him much

    Doubt he shows up with KQ much, I think folding is prob ok, its likely a set or KJ and we are not far ahead of KJ. Without history between you air is much less likely
  • edited March 2012

    I personally call this, or even shove.

    You are only beaten by 55,1010,QQ,Q10,Q5 or KK/AA.

    From him only calling your raise from the D with the SB and BB after i would rule out KK,AA,QQ.. since you say he is a tight player he wouldnt want a 4 way pot, and he is only increasing the SB/BB's pot odds by only calling.

    I would possibly even say he is re-raising 1010, because it gets out drawn by marginal hands such as QJ and he wouldnt want the blinds to get in for cheaply, which one of them did.

    Due to his tight image im also ruling out Q5.. This leaves his possible range (IMO) at 55,Q10.. And again Q10 is a loose call for such a tight nit as you said? Unless suited I guess.

    Furthermore, if he had made his set, doesnt he flat call your bet increasing the pot odds for the BB to call aswel? And with the intention that you will fire again on the turn? Especially when the board was so weak.

    He could also have had JK and made a semi-bluff, or maybe AK giving him a gutshot and 2 overs (from his perspective).

    ----------

    Could he have also just had QK/QJ? Possibly suited, that is within the nits range on the button?

    ----------

    This could have been so much easier if you had simply closed your eyes and shoved ;) Haha
    I personally wouldnt be folding in this position, i think that you are winning in this position more times then you are losing but im pretty new to the forums etc. so dont be hating my analysis to much guys :)

  • edited March 2012
    if he 3bets TT he def 3bets AK. Wouldnt think he 3bets TT 100% though

    He can prob have 55, KJ, sometimes QT,TT and maybe AQ or air

    Doubt he raises KQ,QJ

    Sometimes though when someone tells you they have a hand they have it even if there are very few combos of it
  • edited March 2012
    He's not raising kq, kj here. He either has me well beat or has air I think. Thanks for advice everyone interesting hand!
  • edited March 2012
    You are behind more often than not here against this opponent even though he has developed some moves in recent months. That said I have you down as pretty loose so surprised you snap fold. I guess Fordyce's image is ultra tight.
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