Slowroll thread

TommyD

Hi all

I have deleted the thread that has appeared here today accusing someone of slowrolling.

1)  This is against forum rules to 'name and shame'
2)  You provided no proof other than your accusation.
3)  These claims were unsubstantiated.
4)  It was very boring.

I have set this thread up if people want to continue a discussion on how bad slowrolling is.  If anyone names the person accused in the previous thread that post will be snap deleted.  And i shall be quite cross.  Grrr.

rancid

Yeah good job, slow rolling is bad but can be funny

Funniest was the world team poker championships, where the player got up from the table - discussed what he should do with his AA !  Everyone laughed lolz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAJ0ibzf4yk

jakally

Sigh.......when I saw the thread title, thought it was a chance to list my greatest slowrolls.

Might still do that - but you're going to have to wait some time............

Lambert180

That is pretty sick Rancid lol

GaryQQQ

This thread is a slowroll! The deleted thread was up for hours

(Not that I disagree with the deletion, the naming and shaming was inappropriate).

TommyD

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

This thread is a slowroll! The deleted thread was up for hours (Not that I disagree with the deletion, the naming and shaming was inappropriate).
Posted by GaryQQQ

I went to a wedding yesterday.  Today I am hungover like you wouldn't believe.  Hence my slowness and grouchiness.

GREGHOGG

I didnt know your a mod... i must be crazy.. i dont like all this karryon


ye slowrolls are bad...

the end

Talon

  Just my opinion here.

  Slowrolls are just bad end o fstory and people who do it should be shot.

  But how can you tell if it is a slowroll. In alive game it is easy to tell. But online it can be many other things. Supposed slow rolls can come from bad connections, multitabling, distractions by cat/dog/wife/tv.

  Nobody likes being slowrolled and we are all very quick to pass judgement. I myself have done something similar whilst having a bad connection, so had no choice in the matter.So maybe we should save judgement for when we are possession of all the facts and not just our own irritation and biased opinion.

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : I went to a wedding yesterday.  Today I am hungover like you wouldn't believe.  Hence my slowness and grouchiness.
Posted by TommyD

I thought it was because you're a tottenham fan .

Poker_Fail

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

I didnt know your a mod... i must be crazy.. i dont like all this karryon ye slowrolls are bad... the end
Posted by GREGHOGG

Crazy who?

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : Crazy who?
Posted by Poker_Fail

Now now, we have been warned about naming and shaming ;o)

GELDY

naughty naughty

TommyD

My word, I thought I wasn't going back to school until tomorrow.

Greg, Fail, see me after.

barnsie

they are never that bad on here as no timebank e.t.c

got slowrolled all the way down the timebank on starz earlier today in a decent plo hand, unless he really was considering folding the nuts on the turn

i hadnt finished typing **** ** **** *** in the chat before i binked a miracle river

reap what you sow

bandini

My favourite slow-roll story was when I called from the big blind with 10sJs and flopped a straight flush. An uber aggressive player that had been giving me verbal shoved all-in and

Archangel

When did sky let the inmates run the asylum?  This worries me more than anyone posting about slow rollers. Letting players with potentially their own agenda decide on post's is a very poor.  I don't know Tommy, he's probably a very cool guy but as he is just a player here is this a good idea? I guess if my post is deleted my point is proven.  No beef with this guy at all, just the decision to make a player a mod.  With great power comes great.... Oh that's Spiderman never mind.  I'm sure many people  will leap to his defense but remember I'm not attacking the player or the man just merely stating my own concerns that a player should not moderate post's. I don't want you to be tapped up for corruption by the mob .

  Oh and with 15 sec's to act proving slow rolling is hard.  Especially if multi tabling.  

EvilPingu

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

When did sky let the inmates run the asylum?  This worries me more than anyone posting about slow rollers. Letting players with potentially their own agenda decide on post's is a very poor.  I don't know Tommy, he's probably a very cool guy but as he is just a player here is this a good idea? I guess if my post is deleted my point is proven.  No beef with this guy at all, just the decision to make a player a mod.  With great power comes great.... Oh that's Spiderman never mind.  I'm sure many people including Tony will leap to his defense but remember I'm not attacking the player or the man just merely stating my own concerns that a player should not moderate post's. I don't want you to be tapped up for corruption by the mob .   Oh and with 15 sec's to act proving slow rolling is hard.  Especially if multi tabling.  
Posted by Archangel

It's standard on a lot of forums for members of the community to become moderators - This forum is no different to millions of others on the internet in that regard. Moderators are usually unpaid, have to put up with trolls, people being abusive towards them, etc, and for the most part, they do a great job, especially when you consider they're not actually getting anything for it.

unknown_username

In Response to Slowroll thread:

Hi all I have deleted the thread that has appeared here today accusing someone of slowrolling. 1)  This is against forum rules to 'name and shame' 2)  You provided no proof other than your accusation. 3)  These claims were unsubstantiated. 4)  It was very boring. I have set this thread up if people want to continue a discussion on how bad slowrolling is.  If anyone names the person accused in the previous thread that post will be snap deleted.  And i shall be quite cross.  Grrr.
Posted by TommyD

Hi TommyD. I was the original poster and would like my right of reply. For a start I was unaware that Naming a person in your thread wasn't allowed, Secondly it was not my intention to 'Shame' the person, it was simply to see what other peoples opinion was. Thirdly how would it be possible to provide proof? Hand history would not help and unless the hand was shown on tv you would not be able to see how long the person concerned took. Also by showing the hand on tv to prove my so called 'Accusation' you would essentially be 'Naming and Shaming'. On your point that the 'Claims' were unsubstantiated, 3 other players from the site posted on the thread almost immediately that the same player has done the same to them and they had it saved in their notes. Finally on your point that it was boring, I didn't know that your opinion on the relevance or your interest in a post was grounds for removal. If that is the case then maybe you should be deleting many more posts. I also think that in a case such as this it would be common courtesy to notify the original poster that their thread has been deleted and the reasoning behind it. It is not as if the thread was offensive or contained foul and abusive language. If I had been notified that I was in the wrong for naming the person I would have ammended my thread to leave the opponent with annonimity. As you can clearly see from this post, I have reffered to the opponent as a person, therefore not giving away their gender let alone their username.
Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham

Archangel

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : It's standard on a lot of forums for members of the community to become moderators - This forum is no different to millions of others on the internet in that regard. Moderators are usually unpaid, have to put up with trolls, people being abusive towards them, etc, and for the most part, they do a great job, especially when you consider they're not actually getting anything for it.
Posted by EvilPingu

I'm understand this is standard but something being standard does not equate to correct.  I would state I am in no way trolling  Tommy.   I understand your points but still disagree with a players power of veto.  Regardless this person seems to conduct themselves well and in the grand scheme of things who cares:).  This no matter what is said is my opinion and I shall not be changing it (any time soon lol), but it is not the end of the world.

   Regardless we all think differently so have a good one.  

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : It's standard on a lot of forums for members of the community to become moderators - This forum is no different to millions of others on the internet in that regard. Moderators are usually unpaid, have to put up with trolls, people being abusive towards them, etc, and for the most part, they do a great job, especially when you consider they're not actually getting anything for it.
Posted by EvilPingu

As one of the above, I can confirm everything that Evil said.  Players on Sky Poker have been Moderators for some time now.  

In the past we were unknow as Moderators and used Mod ID's .  I myself was Sky_Mod7.  Then the decision was made to make it know who the mods were on the forums.  There is a thread that introduces us to the forum.

TommyD is the newest of the Sky Mods, he is a well respected player and will be a great asset to the Mod Team.  In addition his decision to delete the initial thread was perfectly correct.  By all means discuss Slow Rollong, just don't target individuals in your posts

Archangel

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : As one of the above, I can confirm everything that Evil said.  Players on Sky Poker have been Moderators for some time now.   In the past we were unknow as Moderators and used Mod ID's .  I myself was Sky_Mod7.  Then the decision was made to make it know who the mods were on the forums.  There is a thread that introduces us to the forum. TommyD is the newest of the Sky Mods, he is a well respected player and will be a great asset to the Mod Team.  In addition his decision to delete the initial thread was perfectly correct.  By all means discuss Slow Rollong, just don't target individuals in your posts
Posted by JockBMW

To be clear once more Jock I am not attacking Tommy(nor do you say I am) moreover nor condoling naming or shaming.  I just disagree with players as mods that is all.  As stated this is not the end of the world.  I have seen many mods abuse their power, I am sure said player is the last person on Earth to do so.  It's a big world we can all think differently. Monday blues for the win. Anyone entitled to their own opinion can reply but that's it for me on this subject.  Be well.

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : I'm understand this is standard but something being standard does not equate to correct.  I would state I am in no way trolling  Tommy.   I understand your points but still disagree with a players power of veto.  Regardless this person seems to conduct themselves well and in the grand scheme of things who cares:).  This no matter what is said is my opinion and I shall not be changing it (any time soon lol), but it is not the end of the world.    Regardless we all think differently so have a good one.  
Posted by Archangel

I understand your point Archangel, but as I have stated the Player/Mod situation has existed for most of the time that the forum has existed... and it works.  

The Mods are here to assist Sky Poker, not to replace them.  There is a constant dialog between the Mods and the people at Sky Poker who control the site and the forum.  Any decisions regarding an individual's conduct on either the tables or the forum is discussed at length and the final decision , in serious situations, rest firmly in the hands of Sky Poker.

As I said the Mods are here to assist Sky in maintaining the Forum as a place where like minded individuals , with a love of Poker, can discuss any manner of subjects related to the game.

I hope I have put your mind at ease but rest assured if you have any issues with any actions from the Mods, please feel free to PM me or any of the others Mods to discuss 

GL on the tables 

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : To be clear once more Jock I am not attacking Tommy(nor do you say I am) moreover nor condoling naming or shaming.  I just disagree with players as mods that is all.  As stated this is not the end of the world.  I have seen many mods abuse their power, I am sure said player is the last person on Earth to do so.  It's a big world we can all think differently. Monday blues for the win. Anyone entitled to their own opinion can reply but that's it for me on this subject.  Be well.
Posted by Archangel

No issues at all with your posts Archangel, it was a well structured and reasoned point.  It would be an incredibly boring world if we all thought the same way.  Healthy debate is a key to the success of any forum, which is exactly what we have here.  

GL on the tables Archangel  

TommyD

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

In Response to Slowroll thread : Hi TommyD. I was the original poster and would like my right of reply. For a start I was unaware that Naming a person in your thread wasn't allowed, Secondly it was not my intention to 'Shame' the person, it was simply to see what other peoples opinion was. Thirdly how would it be possible to provide proof? Hand history would not help and unless the hand was shown on tv you would not be able to see how long the person concerned took. Also by showing the hand on tv to prove my so called 'Accusation' you would essentially be 'Naming and Shaming'. On your point that the 'Claims' were unsubstantiated, 3 other players from the site posted on the thread almost immediately that the same player has done the same to them and they had it saved in their notes. Finally on your point that it was boring, I didn't know that your opinion on the relevance or your interest in a post was grounds for removal. If that is the case then maybe you should be deleting many more posts. I also think that in a case such as this it would be common courtesy to notify the original poster that their thread has been deleted and the reasoning behind it. It is not as if the thread was offensive or contained foul and abusive language. If I had been notified that I was in the wrong for naming the person I would have ammended my thread to leave the opponent with annonimity. As you can clearly see from this post, I have reffered to the opponent as a person, therefore not giving away their gender let alone their username. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham
Posted by shaun84

Hi Shaun

1)  The naming and shaming rule is a bit of a blind spot for a lot of forum users.  Some forums allow it and other deliver insta-bans for people breaking it.  It can also be applied inconsistently as the decision is by it's very nature subjective.  It's completely understandable you would not know this rule and I take that point totally.

2)  I disagree with your comment that the thread was not an attempt to shame the person.  The thread title was '(player name) what's the point?'  It was directly an accusation of slow rolling by a specific player and encouragement of other people's experiences with that player, not a start of a discussion on the matter of slow rolling as a whole.  This is of course my opinion.

3)  It is near impossible to provide proof of such a slowroll.  This does not change the fact you had no proof.

4)  You quote the other posts agreeing with you.  Again they had no proof or evidence.  We don't know if the player in question:  Heavily cross site/single site multi tables; has a slow connection; is a slow player and double checks their hands before making a decision; is exceptionally cautious to the point of 'nit-rolling.'  At no point in your post did you say they did one of the more clear indications of a slowroll, i.e. typing something in the chat box before calling.  You are just linking slow call with slow roll without anything else.  This is not always the case and no one else brought anything other than this or any argument against the other possible reasons I have detailed above.

5)  My boredom comment.  Luckily my level of interest is not a significant factor when I make a decision on post deletion.  However this forum is meant to be for entertainment and for education.  Your thread was pure dogma and added nothing to the forum.

6)  It was far too late to ask you to edit the post.  You put the player name in the thread title and this filtered into every reply, plus many of the replies had the player name in them.  It was beyond editing.  Previously some Mods on this forum have deleted posts without an explanation on the forum which often leads to a second thread saying 'what happened to that thread?'  I have made this thread to not only allow a budding discussion on slowrolling which was in that thread to continue but to give you and everyone else an explanation as to the reason for deletion.  This also gives you a right to reply and you know which Mod deleted it.  When I took up the offer to become a mod I decided I would act with complete transparency and offer open communication on things like this.  Should I have PMed you as well?  Maybe and I will consider that for the future.  However I have offered you an explanation in the public domain just as your thread was in the public domain.  If you feel I have acted inappropriately please feel free to PM me or post here but let's not over run the forum with a never ending discussion.  For this reason if you have detailed points to make solely for me I would rather do it in PMs but I don't mind either way.

You mention common courtesy, did you PM the player who was the subject of your thread about your intention to post it and did you allow them time to respond to you and give you their explanation?  Slowrolling is, in my opinion, second only to allegations of cheating when it comes to an accusation's severity.  I detest slowrollers and slowrolling.  The stigma is so strong that I really believe no one should be accused of it without complete and utter proof, mud sticks and bad names are exceptionally hard to shake.  Out of respect and courtesy for that player the thread had to be deleted.

Threads get deleted, people make ill judged posts.  I feel your thread was ill judged but it doesn't take away from my opinion of you as a poster and as far as I am concerned the matter is dealt with with no prejudice for the future.

TommyD

Quick reply to Archangel.

Your posts were very fair and I know no offense was meant and certainly none was taken.  Users become Mods on forums the web over and this has been the case on every forum I have been a part of since the web first began.  Which is a lot of fourms.

I am the newest Mod to the team and I'm sure I'll find out very soon if I'm any good at it.  You bring up a very good point about some Mods letting power go to their head, I've seen this happen on other forums and I am very conscious of not letting that either happen to me or for the perception of that having happened to occur.  I'm sure I will find out in the future if I am successful at this.

scouse_red

FWIW as a Mod, Tommy was wholy correct in his decision to delete the original thread, I was actually in the process of PMing the OP and sending emails to the rest of the mods and relevant sky peeps to do exactly the same thing.

One point Tommy raises is that the number of replies quoting the OP made it impossible to edit, i'll also add that as "mods" we have no ability to edit posts other than the OP in a thread, and I think this is where some users think we are being heavy handed at times.

Machka

Hopefully the forum software will be updated in the near future to enable easier moderating.

None of us want to delete threads.

BorinLoner

So does anyone remember when this was a thread about slow-rolling?

I can't stand it but with a 15 second clock, it's not really possible. Seen it done on Stars a few times with a 20 second clock and using up 59 seconds of the time bank before calling and showing AA. Never suffered from it live but that might be because I'm 6'2" and probably wouldn't be high on their list of people they want to upset.

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Slowroll thread:

So does anyone remember when this was a thread about slow-rolling? I can't stand it but with a 15 second clock, it's not really possible. Seen it done on Stars a few times with a 20 second clock and using up 59 seconds of the time bank before calling and showing AA. Never suffered from it live but that might be because I'm 6'2" and probably wouldn't be high on their list of people they want to upset.
Posted by BorinLoner

I agree with everything you say.......  and everything you're about to say......  and anything you might have said.  Think I've covered my bases there ;o)

I was once slow rolled , live, by a guy who had flopped Quad Kings...  In fairness he was drunk...  had never played Poker before.... didn't know he had won..... and he shouted Bingo when he put the cards down....  Does this still class as a slow roll :O) 

-ACERAG-

Slow roll karma.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iQ2lg7hswM&feature=related

Lambert180

Jeez that was a very well thought out, intelligent response TommyD!

Well worthy of the title of Mod