Fold or not to fold that is the question

GREGHOGG

I guess the hand would help!

bennydip2	Small blind		20.00	20.00	1450.00
GREGHOGG	Big blind		40.00	60.00	5657.50
	Your hole cards	K K
LEON1	Fold
FlashFlush	Raise		160.00	220.00	6235.00
FITF3	Call		160.00	380.00	6315.00
bennydip2	Fold
GREGHOGG	Raise		320.00	700.00	5337.50
FlashFlush	Call		200.00	900.00	6035.00
FITF3	Call		200.00	1100.00	6115.00
Flop
		7 10 10
GREGHOGG	Check
FlashFlush	Bet		500.00	1600.00	5535.00
FITF3	Fold
GREGHOGG	Raise		1500.00	3100.00	3837.50
FlashFlush	All-in		5535.00	8635.00	0.00
GREGHOGG	Fold
FlashFlush	Muck
FlashFlush	Win		8635.00		8635.00

GREGHOGG

I know what Flashflush had because he told me..

I wonder if you can guess his hand?

Also was i wrong to fold...?

This was early on in the 22 Deepstack...

BADBOY985

THINK YOUVE FORGOTTEN TO PUT THE HAND IN GREG

BADBOY985

THATS BETTER, I HAVENT COME UP AGAINST FLASH MUCH (AND ONLY UP TO £5 BUY INS) BUT FROM WHAT I KNOW OF HIM I WOULD BE VERY TEMPTED TO CALL

LadyFingrs

So you were c/r bluffing with ur KK?

I don't see how you can take this line then fold

scrumdown

say  yes  u  was  greg  flash flush  had  qq

Any2Suited

I can't fold after the raise you have made,most of the time you want a reraise so you can get all your chips in.Not much info on player as you so unlikely i fold.

unknown_username

Difficult to say without knowing the player, the way the betting went I wouldn't put him on Aces unless he was happy in a 3 way pot pre flop. My guess is with Scrumdown QQ or JJ & AK as an outsider. I think I'd have played but would have possibly charged more than 320 pre flop(but that's just poss me as I like to try and take pots down too early)

mabsue

i DONT THINK I FOLD THERE GREGG TBH only two hands imo he playing back at you with one is Aces the other queens maybe jacks but he unlikely to shove with the ten so you can all but rule that out i reckon meaning you only losing to one hand Aces then i think he would have re raised pre so  given all information to hand i couldnt have folded but thats me hope it helps if you follow my thought process unlikely you were losing imo

mabsue

by the way what did flush have?

FlashFlush

OK ill tell you all what I had...

 AK spades.. iv raised UTG, Greg's reraise i knew ment he was very strong as it was a small reraise into a 3way pot.. I call to see the paired board and nut flush draw (and of course 2 overs). Very suprised to see Greg check, and when he did I knew he was planning a check/raise... Again i didnt feel his raise was big enough only being 3x my flop bet... I knew i was ROUGHLY 50/50 (probs about 40%) to hit my flush and with the added chance he will fold to a shove made it 50/50 or even 60/40 my in my favour...
 Good disciplined laydown, no point racing for your trny life this early in such a long structured trny

Dollie

It's early in the tourny.  Flash raises 4 x bb ie 160 and you raise to 320.  Flash must now put you on a big hand perhaps AA or KK but by calling for 200 is getting odds pot of 7/2.  He now sees the flop 7 10 10 (possible flush draw and possible straight draw) and bets 500 remembering that he has already put you on a big hand and FITF3 is still there (so there are 2 potential opponents), although FITF3 did fold at this point.  You raise to 1500 and he thinks "has he hit?".  As he's probably got you on KK or AA pre flop he concludes that you have not and probably doesn't think you would raise with either of the draws. By coming back over the top with all in he has, in my view, put you on 2 pairs - could be aces and tens - and probably expects you to call.  I don't think he was worried by that so I put him on something better - trips (unlikely to have lasted this long with Ace 10 of ? 10), a full house (if he had pocket 7s - remember he had 7/2 pot odds pre flop and would probably take a chance with that) or even quads.  I think you were right to fold. I, of course, have had several minutes to think about - you did not.

Dollie

I see I was too late!! And off the mark as well.

IRISHROVER

 i was going to say hes got 8s 9s  or as qs

50/50 on the fold greg


but i see now hes already said lol

LadyFingrs

Why does everyone always put everyone on AK, AA or KK whenever they raise here?

Anyway, ridiculous to fold once you c/r for value, as played, the only thing you can ever do here is call.

I do rly like the check raise though, jus to balance the time's we'll 3b AK, AQ and c/f flops, but c/r call all day.

Also, bad sizing pre, rr much more imo.

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: Fold or not to fold that is the question:

Why does everyone always put everyone on AK, AA or KK whenever they raise here? Anyway, ridiculous to fold once you c/r for value, as played, the only thing you can ever do here is call. I do rly like the check raise though, jus to balance the time's we'll 3b AK, AQ and c/f flops, but c/r call all day. Also, bad sizing pre, rr much more imo.
Posted by LadyFingrs

Hi

Thanks for this...

I agree that it was the wrong fold on reflection... I actually had him on the AKs during the hand but could not bring myself to call my deepstack tournie early with only 2 pair (albeit a strong 2 pair) I was also worried about A10 though...

The check raise was to "ask the question"...

The check raise bluff, although part of my arsenal, i would not usually use it against this opponant...

offshoot

Ladyfingers has got it spot on. When you raise here youre either doing it for value or as a bluff. Its ridiculous to raise KK as a bluff because you will never get him to fold better hands, so you should only raise for value which means you should be glad to call it off when he shoves. If you dont want to go broke here then dont raise, just call. You shouldnt really raise to "find out where youre at"