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MTT - AK facing raise and 3bet in SB 1st level
No reads on Mister_M, obvz Scotty has any 2 but can I continue here with large 3bet ?
| Dudeskin8 | Small blind | 10.00 | 10.00 | 2075.00 | |
| MAGICM8 | Big blind | 20.00 | 30.00 | 1915.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| hoggystyle | Call | 20.00 | 50.00 | 1790.00 | |
| scotty77 | Raise | 80.00 | 130.00 | 1890.00 | |
| font8a | Fold | ||||
| Mister_M | Raise | 340.00 | 470.00 | 2000.00 | |
| Dudeskin8 |
Comments
Your options.
Fold: Nothing wrong with folding here you only have a sb invested on level 1 in a pot where you are not totally sure of where you are. AK becomes a much more powerful hand later on in a tourny and is less powerful at this stage.
Raise: Any raise here would commit you to the pot(you can not 4-bet fold here) because a raise would pretty much have half your stack in the middle. So any raise is an effective shove so you might as well shove if you are going to raise as this at least gives you increased fold equity. Downside to this is the fact that the best you can really hope for in a calling range to this would be a race because you are realistically not being called by worse here.
Call:This has to be the worst possible thing in this situation with the original raiser still left to act so it doesnt even guarantee you to see a flop. Plus you will then be playing the flop out of position against an unknown 3-betting hand. So this option has to clearly be removed from the situation.
So like i said nice and simple shove or fold.And an arguement can be made for both of these. It all depends on you and whether you wish to be put into a gamble situation at this stage of a tourny. But for me i would much rather crash out at this stage rather than rock myself for best part of 2 hours and still not get any money for it.
you could have just said.. fold or shipppppp
fwiw, i fold if i care about the mtt, but if its one of many, i just ship every day of the week
4 bet if you wanna get in 50/50
flat if your happy getting in on A & K flop and obviously play it cute and also if you don't wanna straight flip at this stage
fold = why play poker
shove = never getting called by worse
1. we are oop with a hand that loses its value if we hit and our opponants dont.
2. we would be calling for 1/6 of our stack. if we are deeper, i dont mind a flat so much.
3. a jam could get folds from some better hands. I also disagree you dont get called by worst. some ppl will call with AQ AJ, youve obv not played the same mtts i have.
Im just allergic to playing inflated pots oop, maybe i need to learn, maybe i dont. w/e
Really doesn't get any easier
what are the benefits in folding though, don't understand the folding AK 6 max )
Even if we say 3 bettors range can include AQ/AJ doesn't mean they going to be calling it off pre - but an ace high flop makes it impossible for them to get away )
Greg - they really calling off 4 bet shoves with AQ/AJ this early - I don't think so
Whats your plan if it come 4 6 T rainbow?? Check folding after sticking 20% + of you stack pre?
the only positives i can find in flatting are:
1. that we let AJ/AQ valuetown themselves on A high boards if we don't think these hands call a 4bet pre
2. we keep bluffs in and allow them to rep A/K high boards and then we can just call down
3. we lose less against AA/KK
however i think 1 has to be discounted somewhat given that i don't think the people who 3bet this size with AJ/AQ are always folding to a 4bet and if you think 3 is important because the villain's range is weighted so heavily towards AA/KK then you should just be folding pre anyway.
reasons why 4betting is better imo if we want to continue:
1. even though stacks to pot ratio is small i still think playing the hand oop will be a considerable disadvantage
2. we allow pairs <KK to play perfectly against us, so now we don't always stack them on A/K high flops, and we don't have fold equity against them on low boards when we could get folds preflop.
3. we make a pair on the flop ~1/3 times (and less if villain also holds an ace or a king) so the amount of times that we get the villain to bluff into us/valuetown himself are outweighed by the times he can bluff us off a better hand
Just take the fold option then, easy fold init - no risk reward then
The main problem with this is that not only would we be playing out of position which is never good hoping to hit the flop which we will do only 1 in 3 times and then not sure where we are even if we do hit. But there are still 2 people left to act after us preflop.
All the assumptions being made to justify a call here are that the original limper had a junk hand and will fold and that ryan only raised the way he did to isolate the limper in position. Although it is unlikely that the original limper has much, can we easily say that ryan has nothing here. So a call by us could just lead to a 4-bet shove coming in preflop and then we are being asked to call off our entire stack or fold after putting a big chunk in.
We can only justify a call here if we can guarantee getting it heads up with then being prepared to go with it if we hit the flop. As it is we can not say this with any real conviction because of the players left to act before we get to the 3-better. Making any assumptions on relative hand strength of 1 player is hard but to do it with all 3 with that much of our stack can never be a great idea.
This is why for me we can not call in this situation. It is always better to ask questions rather than just sit there and answer them. Guaranteed HU pot changes the dynamic totally but as it stands this is not the way this hand is developing. The call will give people the notion that they have the odds to call and see the flop and that makes it automatically an allin bet size on any flop because of the multiway action in an inflated pot.