NL30 Passive QQ -

rancid

General feeback on all streets plz
Table been playing TIGHT as you like and so has oppo
pre with reads I coulda been way ahead or way behind so flat the 3 bet
Bit of a scare card on turn given flop action, feel may coulda b/f turn
Should I b/f river given oppo checks behind on turn

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Seizer	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£27.70
Ultracat	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£9.10
	Your hole cards	Q Q
rancid	Raise		£0.90	£1.35	£68.76
wudibluff	Raise		£2.40	£3.75	£38.64
jd44	Fold
pharaoh123	Fold
Seizer	Fold
Ultracat	Fold
rancid	Call		£1.50	£5.25	£67.26
Flop
		J Q 6
rancid	Check
wudibluff	Bet		£2.10	£7.35	£36.54
rancid	Raise		£6.83	£14.18	£60.43
wudibluff	Call		£4.73	£18.91	£31.81
Turn
		10
rancid	Check
wudibluff	Check
River
		A
rancid

DOHHHHHHH

I don't think that turn is a scare card, it looks like a great card for us to keep betting!

Tenner on the turn sets up a river shove nicely.

AK got there, but how often is he betting/calling a cr with AK on this board in 3bet pots? Unlikely imo. Also still have loadsa %ages against AK anyway.

KK has picked up equity and isn't folding, ppl don't like folding AA either, the rest of his 3betting range is already a set worse than yours, its valoooooooooo time!

rancid

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

I don't think that turn is a scare card, it looks like a great card for us to keep betting! Tenner on the turn sets up a river shove nicely. AK got there, but how often is he betting/calling a cr with AK on this board in 3bet pots? Unlikely imo. Also still have loadsa %ages against AK anyway. KK has picked up equity and isn't folding, ppl don't like folding AA either, the rest of his 3betting range is already a set worse than yours, its valoooooooooo time!
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

AK/KK/AA all look great on the board from turn onwards

Like seriously what range is oppo flatting flop with that I beat

But yeah if I bet turn, oppo only ever raising with AK but calls with a bunch of hands I beat

---

lets say we v/b turn and get called

we can't shove that yuk river can we though
can we seriousloy get two streets of value here or should we be happy with turn or river v/b

percival09

I'd only check the turn if you're looking to c/r, I'd probz b/c about £12

As played I don't mind c/f to a big bet on the river, I'd probably call a reasonably sized bet as villain could be vbetting worse, i.e. a lower set or 2 pair

edit: if you did bet the turn like I said above, then if villain bets the river after you check it to him, he's likely to shove given his stack and the pot size and I'd probz fold! I'd expect him to show up with KK/AA more often than not

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ - : AK/KK/AA all look great on the board from turn onwards Like seriously what range is oppo flatting flop with that I beat But yeah if I bet turn, oppo only ever raising with AK but calls with a bunch of hands I beat --- lets say we v/b turn and get called we can't shove that yuk river can we though can we seriousloy get two streets of value here or should we be happy with turn or river v/b
Posted by rancid

Well when we're on the turn we don't know what the river card is, so we bet here coz there's tonnes of value to be had, with a view to shoving most rivers.

Obv it's a yuk river card, but most of the time it's not gonna be. 

I didn't comment on the river coz it's too hard, and I dunno what to do, probably c/f aint it. I just mentioned the turn bit coz I'm fairly confident checking here is a big mistake after c/ring flop. 

percival09

Also, if he's a good player, he probably suspects you have either JJ or QQ! What else are you flatting a 3b oop vs a mp raise from a tight opponent? Then you raise a dry a** flop - he probz just doesn't want to let AA/KK go

unknown_username

IMO your oppo is one of the tightest if not the tightest player at that level and only bets or calls river if he is beating you so if your facing kk and you pot bet river your obvi beat but if he has AA and you pot bet it he folds.

Imo he only has AA or KK here and never has AK so if you check he def wins and you might aswell just give up on the cash whereas if you bet it strong i think you win it 50% of the time.

I pot bet river and cover my eyes lol

Then again ive only been playing poker for just over 2 weeks so your prob better off not listening to me

EvilPingu

I think leading the flop with top set is an option here - If he's got AA/KK, then he's probably going to re-raise and you can get stacks in?

grantorino

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ - : AK/KK/AA all look great on the board from turn onwards Like seriously what range is oppo flatting flop with that I beat But yeah if I bet turn, oppo only ever raising with AK but calls with a bunch of hands I beat --- lets say we v/b turn and get called we can't shove that yuk river can we though can we seriousloy get two streets of value here or should we be happy with turn or river v/b
Posted by rancid

I assume you are asking what you beat on turn as you flop the nuts. mmm everything except AK., ie, TT+, AQ all of which are as likely as AK (TT and AK unlikely imo). Bet turn and obv call it off, he may raise JJ and sometimes worse, nits dont like folding big preflop hands. Obv the worst river card comes down, but it will be good for you the vast majority of time

I might just c/c flop, but if his range is tight as you say I like the c/r.

river is weird, its prob a c/f

rancid

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ - : I assume you are asking what you beat on turn as you flop the nuts. mmm everything except AK., ie, TT+, AQ all of which are as likely as AK (TT and AK unlikely imo). Bet turn and obv call it off, he may raise JJ and sometimes worse, nits dont like folding big preflop hands. Obv the worst river card comes down, but it will be good for you the vast majority of time I might just c/c flop, but if his range is tight as you say I like the c/r. river is weird, its prob a c/f
Posted by grantorino

Flop is where I am confused, what does oppo possibly flat the c/r with
JJ/66/AK/AA/KK - only hand that would make sense to flat would be AK - hence I check turn
possible oppo traps with other hands - surely you just wanna get it in
check behind on turn, now it's not AK-
So on river, everything beats me except JJ/66

Is it too thin on river to v/b

grantorino

 Why does AK make more sense to flat than other hands?

He cant have 66 if your reads are correct, if he can he certainly can have stuff like AQ,KQ on the flop

not too sure about river, your line looks so fos maybe you can valuebet. Maybe you can bluff either but I doubt it. I would c/f though against villain as described

rancid

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

 Why does AK make more sense to flat than other hands? He cant have 66 if your reads are correct, if he can he certainly can have stuff like AQ,KQ on the flop not too sure about river, your line looks so fos maybe you can valuebet. Maybe you can bluff either but I doubt it. I would c/f though against villain as described
Posted by grantorino

JJ/66 would want to get it in unless it's a trap - agree doubt oppo 3 bets 66 - reads say 10's+ AK

AA/KK - maybe would flat but would expect the same - get em in

Only draws are left, which AK in a 3 bet pot would make more sense - every other hand/draw  I beat folds to the c/r or just ain't worth considering AJ/KQ/KJ

Infact it's only JJ I beat here on river
on turn I beat everything apart from AK

in hindsight b/f or b/c turn is best but we then if we are called we have to check this river

Have to agree with Dohhhh, any brick on river we shove after betting turn


anyways I done this, how comfotable do we feel about a half pot size bet on river
This is so thin

River
		A
rancid	Bet		£9.46	£28.37	£50.97

yb

b/fing turn would be utterly horrendous, nits aren't b/cing a QJx flop with AK in a 3b pot

his range is JJ+, AQ almost always if your reads are correct

rancid

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

b/fing turn would be utterly horrendous, nits aren't b/cing a QJx flop with AK in a 3b pot his range is JJ+, AQ almost always if your reads are correct
Posted by yb

Maybe my thinking is bit wayward here, but if I bet turn for value obviously - the only hand that surely raises me is AK - so why is b/f turn utterly horrendous

Do we just b/c it off and still bink FH )

grantorino

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ - : Maybe my thinking is bit wayward here, but if I bet turn for value obviously - the only hand that surely raises me is AK - so why is b/f turn utterly horrendous Do we just b/c it off and still bink FH )
Posted by rancid

no he can still raise you with JJ,QQ,KK,AA maybe AQ. Also he wont b/c flop that often with AK cos its not going to be profitable for him usually.

Yes just b/c it off, you have top set in a 3bet pot

yb

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ - : Maybe my thinking is bit wayward here, but if I bet turn for value obviously - the only hand that surely raises me is AK - so why is b/f turn utterly horrendous Do we just b/c it off and still bink FH )
Posted by rancid

the point is if he's the sort of player who only raises the turn with AK here then he is probably never betting and calling a raise with AK on that flop

rancid

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ - : no he can still raise you with JJ,QQ,KK,AA maybe AQ. Also he wont b/c flop that often with AK cos its not going to be profitable for him usually. Yes just b/c it off, you have top set in a 3bet pot
Posted by grantorino

so true

b/c it off looks so much better, like you say there is AA/KK/JJ & maybe AQ that oppo could shove on with

awkward would be my bet gets called and face that river card

Suppose to avoid this I b/c £14 ? Commit me & oppo to the pot on turn and oppo should shove turn given effectve ?

AS PLAYED - what do you think about the bet on the river for half pot - b/f is ok here ?

rancid

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ - : the point is if he's the sort of player who only raises the turn with AK here then he is probably never betting and calling a raise with AK on that flop
Posted by yb

Yeah I get that now, cheers

barnsie

the problem you have is the oppo is possibly the tightest player ever made by man

Batkin88

I think like you said when he checks behind you become increasingly worried about AK however if you held AK then you would be betting as you have basically told him you have a set of jacks or queens and he would want to get max value. I dont think he could have this hand because of that. When the A comes on the river after your check on the turn i would also check fold the river as your reads would put him on AA KK or AK and your behind to all of them.

beaneh

In Response to Re: NL30 Passive QQ -:

I think like you said when he checks behind you become increasingly worried about AK however if you held AK then you would be betting as you have basically told him you have a set of jacks or queens and he would want to get max value. I dont think he could have this hand because of that. When the A comes on the river after your check on the turn i would also check fold the river as your reads would put him on AA KK or AK and your behind to all of them.
Posted by Batkin88

bet call 11 ish on the turn. 

WHOAMI196

I like b/f river even though a k hits his range, no need to bet big though, because if you had a kx hand then you would bet for value to get called by Ax or whatever and its unlikely you would get bluffed at from sizing tells. I think c/f is to weak and c/c is pretty bad.

EDIT: oppo pretty tight as mentioned in posts, if this is so then i dont mind c/f river tbh, its hard to see a tight villain three bet you from UTG +1, with nothing worse than jj and tbh this seems unlikely given action, everything else has you crushed, so i check and hope he checks back. 

rancid

Think I'll wrap this up, thanks for some great feedback

turn - think b/c would be best
river - mmmm still undecided but suppose the majority of the time I am beat here so maybe c/f
But still feel b/f can never be bad

River
		A
rancid	Bet		£9.46	£28.37	£50.97
wudibluff	Call		£9.46	£37.83	£22.35
rancid	Show	Q Q
wudibluff	Muck	J J
rancid	Win	Three Queens	£36.03		£87.00