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Comments on semi-bluff please - does the Ace give me the pot odds on the turn?

Prop60Prop60
edited April 2012 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancesparkycm21Small blind 10.0010.001487.50GGDBig blind 20.0030.002820.00 Your hole cardsA3   willshir06Fold    kalookij05Raise 80.00110.002382.50Prop60Call 80.00190.001790.00sparkycm21Fold    GGDCall 60.00250.002760.00Flop  954   GGDCheck    kalookij05Bet 187.50437.502195.00Prop60Raise 500.00937.501290.00GGDFold    kalookij05All-in 2195.003132.500.00Prop60All-in 1290.004422.500.00kalookij05Unmatched bet 592.503830.00592.50kalookij05ShowQQ   Prop60ShowA3   Turn  7   River  A   Prop60WinPair of Aces3830.00 3830.00
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Comments

  • percival09percival09
    edited April 2012
    why does it matter about the turn? all the money is on the flop?
    I'd fold pre
    post flop is fine
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  • GlenelgGlenelg
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Comments on semi-bluff please - does the Ace give me the pot odds on the turn?:
    why does it matter about the turn? all the money is on the flop? I'd fold pre post flop is fine
    Posted by percival09
    Beat me too it P! For what it's worth If you mean % wise.. on flop you're favourite to win...on turn prob not??
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  • ybyb
    edited April 2012
    if i call pre i'm never folding on that flop
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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu
    edited April 2012
    I don't mind the call pre when deeper in a cash game, for instance, but as we're only 95bb deep and the opening raise is to 4x, plus people can still raise and we'd then have to fold, I think it's an easy fold before putting any chips in the pot. Only thing going for this hand is that we have position.

    As played, I think it's fine on the flop. We have fold equity, we could potentially be ahead of other draws anyway, we've got outs. Fair enough.
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited April 2012
    Fold pre, gonna get yourself in bags of trouble postflop when flop is Ace high. 

    Flop is best you could hope for and you played it well. 
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  • Prop60Prop60
    edited April 2012
    Thanks guys.

    Flop/turn ..... doh. sorry. it was late and I'd spent an age trying to get the hand to paste properly.

    What I was really asking was was I getting the odds to call the all-in shove. Thanks for the answers.

    Is it such a bad play to call this pre early on? I've had a few problems recently playing tight -  though I tend to go deep I often end up in pretty bad shape near the bubble. I'm calling for just this situation - if i don't flop super good then I'm folding to his post flop bet - to try and get far enough ahead to allow me to wait for my spots and not force it.
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Comments on semi-bluff please - does the Ace give me the pot odds on the turn?:
    Thanks guys. Flop/turn ..... doh. sorry. it was late and I'd spent an age trying to get the hand to paste properly. What I was really asking was was I getting the odds to call the all-in shove. Thanks for the answers. Is it such a bad play to call this pre early on? I've had a few problems recently playing tight -  though I tend to go deep I often end up in pretty bad shape near the bubble. I'm calling for just this situation - if i don't flop super good then I'm folding to his post flop bet - to try and get far enough ahead to allow me to wait for my spots and not force it.
    Posted by Prop60
    Yes, I'm afraid it is really bad to call in this spot with A3s. The chance of hitting your flush is really small. So while the cost of calling in this specific hand is only 80, you're presumably going to be doing the same in every similar spot. So if we do this ten times the cost will be 800 chips and we're still unlikely to hit the flush in any of those ten hands. Even on those ocassions when we flop the flush, we have to be convinced that our opponent will stack off to us with weaker. That cannot be guaranteed so we can't even say that we will make enough when we do hit to cover the losses from all of the times that we've missed. When everyone is this short (without the chance to reload as in a cash game) we can absolutely guarantee that we will lose more than we win with this play.

    If we're not playing A3 to only hit the flush, we can only be playing it to take advantage of our position to bluff the pot through the streets. An Ace is likely to be a really bad card for us on the board, since we'll only win small pots with the A3 - when our opponents don't have any Ace - and will only play big pots when we're behind - to a bigger Ace or other stronger hand.

    When you look at it over the long-term, this call is a very -ev play. You're just throwing away chips in spots like this I'm afraid.
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  • Prop60Prop60
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Comments on semi-bluff please - does the Ace give me the pot odds on the turn?:
    In Response to Re: Comments on semi-bluff please - does the Ace give me the pot odds on the turn? : Yes, I'm afraid it is really bad to call in this spot with A3s.

    Thanks loner

    Always looking to plug leaks in my game. Will save rag suited aces for my all-in shoves when short-stacked on the bubble! lol

    Cheers Mate.
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