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Crazy omaha spot.

jh16jh16
edited April 2012 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancesamjazzSmall blind £0.25£0.25£126.79jh16Big blind £0.50£0.75£84.87 Your hole cards9QQ9   samjazzRaise £1.25£2.00£125.54jh16Raise £4.00£6.00£80.87samjazzRaise £9.00£15.00£116.54jh16Call £6.00£21.00£74.87Flop  2J5   jh16Check    samjazzCheck    Turn  10   jh16Bet £14.00£35.00£60.87samjazzCall £14.00£49.00£102.54River  6   jh16Bet £25.00£74.00£35.87samjazzAll-in £102.54£176.54£0.00jh16Fold    samjazzMuck    samjazzWin £98.50 £98.50samjazzReturn £77.54£0.50£176.04
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Comments

  • jh16jh16
    edited April 2012
    He'd been pretty aggressive through about 30 mins of hu and then this hand came along

    thoughts on the hand?

    Pre flop is pretty standard...
    Check check on the flop doesnt rly narrow his hand down much...
    The turn brings me a ton of outs, decide to lead out 2/3rds pot (in the hand im hoping to take it down at the time i guess, but still with a lot of equity), looking at the hand after maybe i couldve checked hoping for a free card and if he bet, check-raised (still hoping to take it down most of the time, but with loads of outs)... then river can be played so many different ways depending on what comes...

    The river is a huge brick in relation to the hand... never thinking he has 34 (unless its AA34)
    As everything missed on the river could i be check, inducing him to bluff on all missed draws, and raising as a bluff here? pretty high variance play but... if he checks back my QQ has some showdown value and every draw missed, but cant really check call as he could be bluffing with some better hands AA/KK, random 2 pair which would be a tricky call for him (although my line wouldnt make much sense, still a hard call for him with 2 pair).

    I found out what he had... I'll reveal after i see what people think!

    thanks, Jono
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited April 2012
    I'm confused...

    The only crazy thing I can see going on is you bluffing with absolutely nothing. You've managed to get to the river with 1 pair which in Omaha is a feat in itself. But you're hand is never ever ever good here.
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  • jh16jh16
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Crazy omaha spot.:
    I'm confused... The only crazy thing I can see going on is you bluffing with absolutely nothing. You've managed to get to the river with 1 pair which in Omaha is a feat in itself. But you're hand is never ever ever good here.
    Posted by Lambert180

    hmmm, do you play much omaha?
    anyway what do you think he has, i ask just to make you see what im gettiing at??
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited April 2012
    I do play a bit of Omaha, although granted I don't really play HU Omaha.

    I see what you're saying but there are just SO many random 2pr combinations that a half pot bet isn't gonna fold out that often HU on about as dry a board as it gets.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited April 2012
    Obviously it depends on how the run of the game is going, but if he's being aggro, he's gonna be as aggro when he hits as when he misses and wouldn't be surprised to see him going for max value with a 34 in his hand.
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  • Giant811Giant811
    edited April 2012
    I'm by no means an expert, but I'll give it a try.

    Only starting hands I can see where this hand makes some sense are KKJT, KKTT, AKJT, AQJT and KQJT. An aggressive player definitely could 4-bet all of these hands. You call a 4-bet instead of 5-betting, so AAxx is not that big a part of your range, but checking back KKxx still seems reasonable, and there is probably no point value betting top pair with the rundown hands. On the Turn he picks up top 2 or middle set, but if you have AAKQ his top 2 could be counterfitted on the river and his broadway outs may be for a chopped pot only, so he only calls. The river is a brick, so even if he has only top 2 he only loses to a random set, and if he has KKTT then he has the effective nuts as you would have bet top set on the flop.

    Am I close?
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  • TommyDTommyD
    edited April 2012

    Personally I don't 3bet there pre, I'm flatting with that hand.  At HU PLO you're going to end up in a ton of marginal spots OOP with this hand through the streets and I'd really rather not be navigating these spots with inflated betting.

    On the flop I take it you're checking to call and reassess?  Fine IMO

    The turn is the tricky part for me.  Unless this guy has been very laggy his 4bet range should be pretty tight; high to medium D/S rundowns and good AAxx or KKxx hands.  We also have a crossroads on equity, we're totally unsure of our present showdown equity or what our hand equity is (present strength plus the draws).  We've picked up a load of extensions but only 2 nut outs, and we're OOP.  IN HU PLO I think I'm pretty much in check call mode on the turn but I can understand the allure of betting after picking up so many improvers.

    As soon as he flats the turn all thoughts of me leading the river are gone except for the most specific of opponents.  When he bombs the river I'm probably folding, maybe calling if I have a good reason to as far as game flow/history goes.

    To be honest I think you've really overrated your hand on all streets, I just don't think we're ever that strong.

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