Should i be in the hand?

davelufc

If the answer is no, then i`ve played it badly.

If the answer is yes, do i call the all in??

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Evsy	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£1.97
mps66	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£5.15
	Your hole cards	A 4
AyrGraeme	Fold
wherry89	Call		£0.08	£0.20	£4.48
davelufc	Raise		£0.24	£0.44	£9.50
thecattt	Fold
Evsy	Fold
mps66	Raise		£0.32	£0.76	£4.83
wherry89	Call		£0.32	£1.08	£4.16
davelufc	Call		£0.16	£1.24	£9.34
Flop
		A J 9
mps66	Bet		£0.48	£1.72	£4.35
wherry89	Call		£0.48	£2.20	£3.68
davelufc	Raise		£1.28	£3.48	£8.06
mps66	All-in		£4.35	£7.83	£0.00
wherry89	Fold
davelufc ??

EvilPingu

Weren't you playing Lolufold the other day, now you're playing 8NL? Confused.com! BRM ftw.

@ 8NL it's probably a fold, I may occasionally overlimp if there's several limpers and I have position, but I think generally just fold pre.

As played, get it in. Even if you're up against a set of aces, you're getting the right price to call. Don't raise in that spot unless you're happy getting your entire stack in the middle.

percival09

I don't mind pre, maybe it's a fold at this limit but I think it's ok

calling is also an option on the flop but I like raising looking at opponents chip stacks - easy call as played

grantorino

fold pre, too many shortys at table to play A4s

Think I prefer flatting flop, its tough get better to fold or enough worse hands to continue. As played snap the shove

davelufc

In Response to Re: Should i be in the hand?:

Weren't you playing Lolufold the other day, now you're playing 8NL? Confused.com! BRM ftw. @ 8NL it's probably a fold, I may occasionally overlimp if there's several limpers and I have position, but I think generally just fold pre. As played, get it in. Even if you're up against a set of aces, you're getting the right price to call.
Posted by EvilPingu

I`ve been experimenting at quite a few different levels, some without success lol

I still play £2/5 BH, £10/20 BH, nl8/10/50/100 +, I`m all over the place !!!

Not sure if it`s a good thing or not? Anyway i`m off to Leeds, early KO, if anyone needs some money, i will be home about 8 ish, i will happily spew all my hard earned your way!!! that is all.

KAM99

Ok... preflop raise with A4s is fine from CO, though at low limits where you do get a lot of callers (at least here you do) its more of a risk, but at least you'll have postion. The tragically bad 3bet from the BB is either just bad play born of no idea how to make a proper one or one from some with a huge hand that doesn't want to chase everyone out of the pot, while not realising he doesn't want 4 people in the pot with his AA or whatever he has. So that said you got to much odds not to call it.

Obviously the action on flop says you are crushed when he shoves. He has to have a set or at very least two pair. Would he do it with TPTK? Maybe, as lower stakes, but more likely as I said. So really if you call it is down to if you feel like a gamle on the flush draw. In the long run its likely not a winning play as you're not getting the odds for the flushd draw with 2 cards to come and your ace is likely no good right now, and mabye not even if you hit aces up.

So in short if you feel like a gamble go for it, and if I'd played the hand I'd never have reraised the flop. And for exactly the reason that happened. Last thing you wanted to have is to be blown off the hand by a shove, which was quite possible.

Dudeskin8

Don't like pre so much with eveyone being pretty short 50-60bbs so implied odds are less.

If you do raise pre you can't really wish to flop better so you should certianly try and get all the money in when you think you have most equity which is on the flop .

Also overall you can not raise fold vs his stack size with any value hand on that board fact you have TP + FD makes it a snap. 

BorinLoner

I'd never get involved with A4.

On the flop, after you make the raise, you probably shouldn't fold. I don't agree with Kam99 about mps66 necessarily having a set or two pair. JJ, 99 and an unlikely AA are potentially in his range but if he had AK or AQ he'd lead this flop, if he had a King-high flush draw or QhTh he could lead this flop. He was the last pre-flop aggressor after all. After leading this flop he's almost certain to ship on your raise with any of those hands as well. He certainly couldn't call your raise and would likely think he either has the best hand with an AK or that he was getting decent odds on the draw. How many players are really going to fold the second nut draw, when short'ish-stacked? He might even think he has fold equity (You are thinking about it, after all). I'm not saying he can't have a set or two-pair but his range is wider than that.


There's an argument to say that he wouldn't 3-bet pre-flop with KQ or QT but I would argue that anyone who makes this tiny size of a 3-bet pre-flop is likely to be pretty erratic. Whether that means he makes a 3-bet with a wider range than normal or a tighter range than normal is something I can't answer, readless.

KAM99

In Response to Re: Should i be in the hand?:

I'd never get involved with A4. On the flop, after you make the raise, you probably shouldn't fold. I don't agree with Kam99 about mps66 necessarily having a set or two pair. JJ, 99 and an unlikely AA are potentially in his range but if he had AK or AQ he'd lead this flop, if he had a King-high flush draw or QhTh he could lead this flop. He was the last pre-flop aggressor after all. After leading this flop he's almost certain to ship on your raise with any of those hands as well. He certainly couldn't call your raise and would likely think he either has the best hand with an AK or that he was getting decent odds on the draw. How many players are really going to fold the second nut draw, when short'ish-stacked? He might even think he has fold equity (You are thinking about it, after all). I'm not saying he can't have a set or two-pair but his range is wider than that. There's an argument to say that he wouldn't 3-bet pre-flop with KQ or QT but I would argue that anyone who makes this tiny size of a 3-bet pre-flop is likely to be pretty erratic. Whether that means he makes a 3-bet with a wider range than normal or a tighter range than normal is something I can't answer, readless.
Posted by BorinLoner

Yeah, maybe my post made it look like I polarised his range to tight, but I was more making the point that I was leaning to the fact when he leads out (could easy be Cbet with air, though not overly likely in this spot) and then 3bets heros raise wiith a shove I doubt in many cases we would be calling and finding ourselves ahead.

As for A4. Thats up to anyone I guess and how tight they play. Its not a great hand, but nothing wrong with opening a pot with a raise with it from CO or button. Certainly its a hand that can get you in trouble if you try to play it as a pair of aces on a dry board and get action back, but played carefully post flop they are ok as long as you willing to give them up. Cash game you nearly always looking to make big hands, so don't mind playing a hand that can make a flush, or wheel occasionally so that I don't look like a tight nit to anyone watching my play.

Game of opinions on how you play a hand and what your hand selection range is, but in a cash game I dont' have problem playing a suited ace in late potion at 6 max table if i'm the one opening the pot. Far less likely I call with it of course.

1267

Don't mind you being in the hand, espeically if the tables been pretty tight and passive.

Snap call the all in.   Outsville

percival09

It's obviously up to you where you put your money but playing games which range from a £2 tournament up to 100NL+ is slightly ridiculous imo - how can you stay motivated for the micro amounts when you splash into bigger games so often?

rancid

pre= ok-ish at NL8  - probs fold though is better

flop, shove on the bet/call versus the effective

a/s played call, but wanna be the shover in this spot

davelufc

Thanks for replies everyone, some excellent reads by most people,

Not to be this time, A on river just to rub it in lol

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Evsy	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£1.97
mps66	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£5.15
	Your hole cards	A 4
AyrGraeme	Fold
wherry89	Call		£0.08	£0.20	£4.48
davelufc	Raise		£0.24	£0.44	£9.50
thecattt	Fold
Evsy	Fold
mps66	Raise		£0.32	£0.76	£4.83
wherry89	Call		£0.32	£1.08	£4.16
davelufc	Call		£0.16	£1.24	£9.34
Flop
		A J 9
mps66	Bet		£0.48	£1.72	£4.35
wherry89	Call		£0.48	£2.20	£3.68
davelufc	Raise		£1.28	£3.48	£8.06
mps66	All-in		£4.35	£7.83	£0.00
wherry89	Fold
davelufc	Call		£3.55	£11.38	£4.51
mps66	Show	J J
davelufc	Show	A 4
Turn
		Q
River
		A
mps66	Win	Full House, Jacks and Aces	£10.52		£10.52