Ask Tikay - can you explain this rule please?

Prop60

Hi Tikay

This hand is from a £300 BH earlier tonight.

QQ in the small blind for me and a shorty to my left. Standard raise, he re-raise shoves and the button calls. I was going to 4 bet all-in to isolate but my only options in the betting box were to call the 3 bet or fold.

My first thought was there had been some sort of glitch in the software but BorinLoner in the Poker Clinic explained that there is a rule that, if the all-in is smaller than half a min raise, the original raiser can't raise again pre (or something like that).

He suggested that i "ask Tikay" what the purpose of this rule is.

Can you help?

Hand History #514099262 (22:59 02/05/2012)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceProp60Small blind 50.0050.002935.00sekseeBig blind 100.00150.00305.00 Your hole cardsQQ   staplegunFold    RAIZERROSEFold    Aston1968Fold    dmc084Call 100.00250.007060.00Prop60Raise 250.00500.002685.00sekseeAll-in 305.00805.000.00dmc084Call 305.001110.006755.00Prop60Call 105.001215.002580.00Flop  810A   Prop60Check    dmc084Bet 607.501822.506147.50Prop60All-in 2580.004402.500.00dmc084Call 1972.506375.004175.00Prop60ShowQQ   sekseeShow52   dmc084Show78   Turn  K   River  J   Prop60WinStraight to the Ace6375.00 6375.00

Prop60

Struggling to post this in the right place - any Mods about to move it to the Ask Tikay thread?

Machka

I'll remove the mangled post on Ask Tikay in a minute.

This question was asked a while ago and I posted a semi-answer here

Slykllist

The rule as I understand it is:

As the allin is smaller than the minimum legal raise, it is classed as an illegal raise.

Therefore as technically no raise has been made, you are not able to make a re-raise.

It's someting that is worth bearing in mind and considering you opening bet size carefully if there is a shorty on the table that might jam acting after you.

EvilPingu

The big blind is 100.

You've raised to 300 total

Therefore, the minimum legal reraise is 300 + (300-100) = 500

Because the all in player has gone all in for less than 500 (he had 402.5 chips at the start of the hand), he hasn't raised, it only counts as a call. Therefore, you can only flat call the extra 102.5 chips.

The best play would've actually been to raise another 200 (250 total), because then the short stack's all in would've counted as a raise, and you could've re-shoved on the other player if he limp/called.

Tikay10

Thank you, Prop.

As explained by others, this "under-raise" rule, when involved with an all-in player, is pretty much standard, Live & Online. Adds quite an interesting dynamic to such situations, too.   

Prop60

Thanks all, especially Pingu and Sly for the succinct explanations.

I've been playing on-line with Sky for nearly 18 months and never had this happen before.

Certainly something to take into account when dealing with shorties. I mean, it's not like there's much else to take into account, except for position, range, opponents playing style, relative stack sizes, pot odds, implied odds, reverse implied odds, ICM etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam. lol.

Thanks again guys.

Rolf