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Is this a bad beat?
I was in a 6 man tourney the other day, and blinds were 400/800 and i had 2000 chips left, i was dealer, 3 people left, and had AA. I call all in and someone with around 12000 chips calls me with K2 offsuit. Flop= 222! Turn= K River= A, I felt really hard done by, surely this doesn't happen very often and I made the right decision to go all in?
Comments
So yes a very bad beat.
You were right to shove and just got very unlucky. Your problem had occured earlier on, you had allowed yourself to get down that low where you had no fold equity. My advice is to be shoving a lot earlier when you can still get people to lay down their hands. A good guideline is 7-10BB. Use position and shove into unopened pots.
The problem with being an 89% favourite is we will lose 11 times out of 100, we will remember the 11 but not the 89. This is why bad beats are hard to cope with because they bear heavy on us and we do not put them into context. Just chalk this one up to bad luck and carry on knowing it will not always happen
Flopped quads are very rare and the A on the river was definitely rubbing salt in the wounds.
I consider a bad beat is when you lose with a superior hand, to a player who makes a poor decision to call. In this case with the information you have provided it wasnt a poor call from your opponent.
However you still made the right move, but having allowed yourself to get shortstacked you were bound to get called by inferior hands and they will ourdraw you on occasion
In that specific situation pre flop you will lose 14 hands out of 100.
Pretty terrible hand for you there, it wont happen often
"No I dont consider it a bad beat as given you are so short stacked and I''m guessing that he was given odds to call, with his large stack it was probably any auto call.
I consider a bad beat is when you lose with a superior hand, to a player who makes a poor decision to call. In this case with the information you have provided it wasnt a poor call from your opponent." Posted by Aski
Just for the record, a bad beat is any showdown you lose being the statistical favourite* when all the money went in. This is irrespective of whether your opponent(s) had odds/value to call.
So yes this is without doubt a bad beat. The important thing is to accept it as part of the game and not let it affect your play. If you're feeling angry about it, take a break until you can return without thinking about it, this should save you money in the long run.
*The only caveat to this is the extent to which you are a favourite. Some players think you have to be at least 80% in front for it to be called a bad beat, others like myself will consider above 60% as sufficient. (And there will be many others with their own figures somewhere inbetween). It is generally accepted that anything between 50-55% is a "coin toss" so would not qualify and between 55-60% is marginal.
I only consider a bad beat to be being hit by a 4 outer or less on the river, more so if you needed running cards to get it.
Anything else, although it stings, is just really part of the game.
I really couldn't consider a 60/40 a bad beat. Nor being outdrawn on the flop.
Aces against K2 is tough to swallow but still 75/25 ish.
Stack sizes dictated this hand played itself, I assume the k2 was BB so nothing was done wrong by either player.
Hi Hale, yes I should point out I don't differentiate between a "bad" or "normal" beat, for me they are one and the same.
My reasoning is that everything, including the one outer on the river, is part of the game so the most important thing is just to accept and move on regardless of the extent of the beat.
Also, k2 offsuit against aces is only 12% at best to win pre-flop.
I didn't check the exact odds out but I originally thought about 80/20 based on the fact it is more likely to get 2 pair with live cards than the odds of hitting a set with a pocket pair. If you take into account paired boards which will make your 2 pair obsolete, it does reduce further.
But yes, also by having your attitude that every beat is just part of the game does make them more bearable and keeps you in the right frame of mind.
I tend to rarely moan about beats regardless. It just proves you got your money in well ahead and long term should be profitible.
We obviously want callers when we are a 90% favourite but then people seem to moan when the 10% hits.
We will agree to disagree on what we class as a bad beat then Jingle, this is the definition I've always used, for one reason and one reason only, its a good come back for when people moan about beats.
To have a hand that is a large underdog beat a heavily favored hand. It is generally used to imply that the winner of the pot had no business being in the pot at all, and it was the wildest of luck that he managed to catch the one card in the deck that would win the pot
if someone gets dealt aces on big blind and cant even post half the blind, is it a bad beat when the SB makes up with 7 2 os and wins the hand and thus is the guy with aces then entitled to make a post asking if it was a bad beat or not
Hi Aski, yes people who moan about bad beats are usually either new and/or don't understand the game, however it is still their prerogative to do so.
I'll agree with you there, but then surely it is up to us to explain the reason(s) we think they lost, which is why I said I didnt class this as a bad beat. I've seen your conversation with Hale and can quite accept your interpreation that a Beat is a Beat, but I felt that by trying to explain why the OP was called and why I didnt consider it a bad beat as such, then the OP wouldnt get frustrated, angry and maybe go on tilt if a similar situation happened in future
Fair enough Aski, I see your point. But this may lead to more confusion for them when other people tell them it is a bad beat. The best thing a player can do imo, is to learn that all beats are a normal part of the game which they should accept and move on. Hopefully, as they gain more experience, they will then stop complaining about them in the future. Of course, not everyone will so I understand what you're saying.