Exit hand $1000 deep stack. Think my shove was ok, just bad timing.

KAM99

Couldn't have had a worse late part of the tournament as went card dead after first break till after second, and only picked up two hands (A10 and JJ) in that time and got walk with the jacks and reraise take down with A10. And made worse by fact I had two deep stacks being fairly relentless on my blinds. and any blind steal I went for was getting shoved on. LOL

So when this hand happened I thought he'd have to call, but I maybe ahead of his blind on blind range, and K9 has been good to me over the years (dog owner and all that), so ok or better to have waited and been first to shove with something else?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Cityboy	Small blind		400.00	400.00	32964.50
KAM99	Big blind		800.00	1200.00	8893.00
	Your hole cards	K 9
SKINDOH73	Fold
fearny7818	Fold
sick_swans	Fold
Cityboy	Raise		2000.00	3200.00	30964.50
KAM99	All-in		8893.00	12093.00	0.00
Cityboy	Call		7293.00	19386.00	23671.50
Cityboy	Show	A 9
KAM99	Show	K 9
Flop
		6 J 6
Turn
		10
River
		8
Cityboy	Win	Pair of 6s	19386.00		43057.50

Think thats 3 out of 4 I've gone card dead not far off the bubble... oh well thats MTT's for ya, and why I hate them. lol

BorinLoner

11BB if you fold... I'm definitely just letting this go. It's so much better to be first into the pot with your stack and K9 is never likely to be a dominant favourite. You shouldn't be desperate to get it in with a hand that's not much better than average, knowing you'll need to win at showdown.

You're right to think he's always calling and, theoretically at least, you have no 3-bet fold-equity against any stack size. You need to get your chips in first.

Dudeskin8

I'd fold this.

He hasn't just minraised but 3x so you should have zero FE and I think he always has better here or at best small pair.

Plus you have 11bbs which is plenty.

KAM99

yeah bare in mind I wasn't likely to be first into any pot at this stage. As i said the two guys to my right were being pretty relentless on blinds. If not one the other raised from button and CO for about last 5-6 orbits. So way I looked at it its not the best hand but against any random hand I'm likely a favourite, and even against his best 30% range i'm around 50%... just one of those sucky times when he had me down at 30% equity. To be honest I'd have been ok even with 40% at this point.

Besides its all great being first into pot, but thats only really if you want a fold because of your fold equity with the shove. Here i know I'm HU with it, so that was my thinking that unless as was I'm dominated I'm not going to be in horrible shape. hell he has A8 and I'm not bad with 44% equity. So that was my thinking... like I said though open to everyones thoughts as its not my main thing MTT's.

mickgil75

                    ur hand was poor but the good old rag ace sorted u out lol,are u a any 2 will do merchant,you

                     gotta learn 2 fold....

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: Exit hand $1000 deep stack. Think my shove was ok, just bad timing.:

yeah bare in mind I wasn't likely to be first into any pot at this stage. As i said the two guys to my right were being pretty relentless on blinds. If not one the other raised from button and CO for about last 5-6 orbits. So way I looked at it its not the best hand but against any random hand I'm likely a favourite, and even against his best 30% range i'm around 50%... just one of those sucky times when he had me down at 30% equity. To be honest I'd have been ok even with 40% at this point.
 
Besides its all great being first into pot, but thats only really if you want a fold because of your fold equity with the shove. Here i know I'm HU with it, so that was my thinking that unless as was I'm dominated I'm not going to be in horrible shape. hell he has A8 and I'm not bad with 44% equity. So that was my thinking... like I said though open to everyones thoughts as its not my main thing MTT's.
Posted by KAM99

This thinking is not so good. It's a common idea that you've got to build a stack to win the tournament but in MTT's the bottom line is only that you need to maintain fold equity. When you hear people talking about nursing a short-stack they're not talking about it as a bad thing, it's a necessary skill in MTT's. You only really need to get a big stack when you're heads-up. Of course, it's easier and better to have a big stack but if you're not willing to play short-stack poker and wait for a +EV spot, you're going to lose money in MTT's in the long-term. Sometimes you just have to pay the rent.

If these two guys are raising every pot, you might just have to make your shove when you're UTG. It's not ideal but we're only talking about 6-max anyway so it's not that bad. You will likely find a chance to get it in first at some point. Here you were effectively calling-off your stack with K9... you can definitely find better spots than this. I appreciate your logic but you weren't short enough to be so desperate.

GELDY

In Response to Re: Exit hand $1000 deep stack. Think my shove was ok, just bad timing.:

In Response to Re: Exit hand $1000 deep stack. Think my shove was ok, just bad timing. : This thinking is not so good. ... you can definitely find better spots than this. I appreciate your logic but you weren't short enough to be so desperate.
Posted by BorinLoner

I think the key point Borin has identified is that you weren't short enough to be desperate enough to make this play.

I actually like your thinking. And if your shove is called it's just heads up so off we go to the races. But wait until you have to make the play. Don't give up on getting a better spot just because you have been card dead. You can easily ride this to 7-8 BB before you need to make this move.  Now that might be fairly soon, but the odds you get with any two against a steal will probably be similar to this so you don't need to regard this hand as premium in any way.

unknown_username

Hi Kam
I think its a fold here myself. You've too big a stack to be this desperate Kam, but i can understand your thinking.  Maybe the card dead period had an effect too, eh? Its surprising how good  Star Wars can look after watching Independence Day or the like! Cheers...

percival09

I probz shove because it's suited